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Ham Album 1 month away!!

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T O P I C R E V I E W
Cyrax	This excites me lots as there's potential for me to remix some of the stems and make my own shoddy Freeform remixes!
robertybob	I hope it lives up to your expectations
arpz	Enjoyed the video :D I'm on a hype too
Captain Triceps	I enjoyed it too, but he could have got the whole point across in about half a minute. "Errm, well, right, err, I just want to say, erm, first of all, errm, you know, just like, erm, just, well, so umm yeah." Seriously though, great update, good to see he's keeping us in the loop and that there's not too long left.
Samination	that was definitly quicker than i thought
djDMS	He's a much better producer than he is a speaker, that's for sure.
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by Samination: that was definitely quicker than i thought That's what she said.
DJ_FunDaBounce	quote: Originally posted by arpz: Enjoyed the video :D I'm on a hype too Can somebody post a link to the vid? or was it just for contributors?
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by DJ_FunDaBounce: quote: Originally posted by arpz: Enjoyed the video :D I'm on a hype too Can somebody post a link to the vid? or was it just for contributors? I don't have the link to hand, but basically it's got a track list, and it says album is coming soon, with a tiny bit of audio at the end. excited to hear the outcome!
DJ_FunDaBounce	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: quote: Originally posted by DJ_FunDaBounce: quote: Originally posted by arpz: Enjoyed the video :D I'm on a hype too Can somebody post a link to the vid? or was it just for contributors? I don't have the link to hand, but basically it's got a track list, and it says album is coming soon, with a tiny bit of audio at the end. excited to hear the outcome! Thanx. Thought it might be private since I couldn't find it on any of his sites.
Craigavon raver	Is it going to be available for general release?
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by Craigavon raver: Is it going to be available for general release? nope, tracklist was posted today aswell ;)
Craigavon raver	Pity! would def have got this
djDMS	Can you imagine the uproar if it got put out for general sale after a load of people forked out 100 quid each for it
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: Can you imagine the uproar if it got put out for general sale after a load of people forked out 100 quid each for it Don't even go there
Elliott	This album is pretty much my only hope for hardcore in 2017. If it turns out to be 10 tracks of big room kicks and EDM leads, I'm done. Obviously it's non-refundable so you'd think that Ham would understand that he has to produce exactly what people are expecting but I don't have faith in any hardcore producer anymore. Edit: Just watched the video and the track sample is like 5 seconds. Total ****ing pricktease. But it does sound like Ham. Thank god.
djDMS	I'd like to say that if anyone can, Ham can. But nothing would surprise me these days.
Sulphurik	Brisk & Ham - You are the one. Don't see this available anywhere, I presume this wasn't released. It's on Next Gen Podcast 31. Found this, sounds good. Don't see free d/l link. https://soundcloud.com/dj-pursuit/dj-brisk-make-it-rough-pursuits-ruffer-remix
Captain Triceps	quote: Originally posted by Sulphurik: Found this, sounds good. Don't see free d/l link. https://soundcloud.com/dj-pursuit/dj-brisk-make-it-rough-pursuits-ruffer-remix It was an entry for the Kniteforce competition. Mine was a runner up and will be available on KFA soon!
Sulphurik	quote: Originally posted by Captain Triceps: quote: Originally posted by Sulphurik: Found this, sounds good. Don't see free d/l link. https://soundcloud.com/dj-pursuit/dj-brisk-make-it-rough-pursuits-ruffer-remix It was an entry for the Kniteforce competition. Mine was a runner up and will be available on KFA soon! Nice one, what's your track?
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: He's a much better producer than he is a speaker, that's for sure. Pretty believable given that Brisk nicknames him Mumbleton Dean in one of the Next Gen podcasts. Ham even was the cohost one time and yea, definitely not much of a talker.
MC Deecee	I'm actually shocked that anybody, let alone multiple people were ~~stupid~~ brave enough to part with 100 notes a head for an album, its one hell of a gamble, especially as he hasnt had anything to do with hardcore for what, a decade? the whole concept behind this seems absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion anyway.
djDMS	....yet he easily found 100+ people willing to back I.
Impulse_Response	I hope someone makes a mix with every song so I and the other few billion people who didn't back the project are able to hear them.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by MC Deecee: I'm actually shocked that anybody, let alone multiple people were ~~stupid~~ brave enough to part with 100 notes a head for an album, its one hell of a gamble, especially as he hasnt had anything to do with hardcore for what, a decade? the whole concept behind this seems absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion anyway. Most of us organised into small groups and ended up paying more like ?25 each. For personal reasons, I struggled to get the money together but it's Ham - one of the greatest and most underrated hardcore producers of all time - so I had to. It's a sign of how great and consistent Ham was that so many people were willing to jump on the project -- myself included, when usually I'd sack this off. Not many people could bounce back from a 6 year hiatus and immediately start commanding this kind of money for an album. Anyway, he was criticised by some on here at the time. I actually defended him. Since he went into drum & bass, he's worth a hell of a lot more than he ever was in hardcore. Even with the high price, he's probably taking a significant pay cut to make this album. Ham's always been a top 5 producer for me and, although it's been a while, his last set of releases before he left the scene were actually some of his best imo. I don't regret my decision at all and I'm as sure as I could be about any hardcore producer that he won't let us down. He'll know he has to produce an album of tracks that sound exactly like what people expect from him and if it comes out that way, it's going to be a stomper. The only thing that'll really piss me off is if it leaks. Even at ?25, you do expect some kind of exclusivity -- let alone if you paid full price.
Captain Triceps	quote: Originally posted by Sulphurik: quote: Originally posted by Captain Triceps: quote: Originally posted by Sulphurik: Found this, sounds good. Don't see free d/l link. https://soundcloud.com/dj-pursuit/dj-brisk-make-it-rough-pursuits-ruffer-remix It was an entry for the Kniteforce competition. Mine was a runner up and will be available on KFA soon! Nice one, what's your track? I did a remix of the same track, plus a remix of Jimmy J & Cru-L-T - Can't You See - I will point out they are both 90s breakbeat hardcore style, not modern UK hardcore. When I can post a snippet I will - I hope you will like it :)
Captain Triceps	quote: Originally posted by MC Deecee: I'm actually shocked that anybody, let alone multiple people were ~~stupid~~ brave enough to part with 100 notes a head for an album, its one hell of a gamble, especially as he hasnt had anything to do with hardcore for what, a decade? the whole concept behind this seems absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion anyway. To echo Elliott's comment, most of us grouped together to pay a smaller amount - not only did Ham unofficially give the green light for that arrangement, I'd be surprised if he hadn't expected it - he gets his ten large and we get our music. The very fact that he could set this up and for it to pay off is testament to the esteem he still holds, even after all these years. You can see from his interviews and updates that he still has much love for the hardcore sound - sadly it just doesn't pay the bills.
arpz	I'm in for the full 100, I wanted this thing and it didn't seem like a unreasonable price all things considered. Slightly pained me to see people clubbing together but if it prevents a full blown leak by some miracle then it's still a winner. I have faith that the music will be absolute quality
Samination	The only complaint I have is that it seems like he tried to evade any kind of costs here. Why didnt he do a crowdfund?
arpz	quote: Originally posted by Samination: The only complaint I have is that it seems like he tried to evade any kind of costs here. Why didnt he do a crowdfund? Presumably decided that if he could find enough people off his own back that he wouldn't need to give money to a company that had no real involvement other than facilitating it. He hasn't 'tried' to evade any cost, he has evaded it, why not?
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by MC Deecee: I'm actually shocked that anybody, let alone multiple people were ~~stupid~~ brave enough to part with 100 notes a head for an album, its one hell of a gamble, especially as he hasnt had anything to do with hardcore for what, a decade? the whole concept behind this seems absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion anyway. It's all proportionate to how much you value a product/service, because I'm making shed loads from Freeform I usually spend 100 quid down the pub over the weekend, so in this case it's best to put it into new music projects.
arpz	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: quote: Originally posted by MC Deecee: I'm actually shocked that anybody, let alone multiple people were ~~stupid~~ brave enough to part with 100 notes a head for an album, its one hell of a gamble, especially as he hasnt had anything to do with hardcore for what, a decade? the whole concept behind this seems absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion anyway. It's all proportionate to how much you value a product/service, because I'm making shed loads from Freeform I usually spend 100 quid down the pub over the weekend, so in this case it's best to put it into new music projects. Haha that's so true, I often think of things in terms of how much wreckage it would equate to and usually it makes the proposition seem totally reasonable. Ridiculous when you think about it really, I'd love to have that money back. Btw, he's just sent an email out - it's done, final payment required by 8th May! :D
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by arpz: quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: quote: Originally posted by MC Deecee: I'm actually shocked that anybody, let alone multiple people were ~~stupid~~ brave enough to part with 100 notes a head for an album, its one hell of a gamble, especially as he hasnt had anything to do with hardcore for what, a decade? the whole concept behind this seems absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion anyway. It's all proportionate to how much you value a product/service, because I'm making shed loads from Freeform I usually spend 100 quid down the pub over the weekend, so in this case it's best to put it into new music projects. Haha that's so true, I often think of things in terms of how much wreckage it would equate to and usually it makes the proposition seem totally reasonable. Ridiculous when you think about it really, I'd love to have that money back. Btw, he's just sent an email out - it's done, final payment required by 8th May! :D very excited now, there's a Robbie long collab and a Brisk one, we know his production is top notch so I'm fairly optimistic
Vladel	I still think he is a dick for not just completing and releasing an album the normal way.
djDMS	Would he sell a thousand copies or more at a tenner each? Probably not
CDJay	Ultimately it's someone releasing an actual full fledged hardcore album. I'll lay odds on it being really good, too. CDJay
Vladel	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: Would he sell a thousand copies or more at a tenner each? Probably not Probably not but at least he wouldn't have been a dick. Besides if it was just about money, he could have just set a target of 10K and let people pledge until release day and then everyone would have been able to afford it. I don't get the whole exclusivity thing to be honest as it's music not a car, its made to be heard and played. I would have gone in i think with some others to bring the price down had the opportunity presented itself as i really like hardcore and i thought Ham was a good producer back in the day. I just think he could have done it all a lot better and a lot fairer.
Jacco	Let's just buy one between 10 people then. It's digitals anyway :D
CDJay	In the end, it's a new Ham album. How it happened, and who gets it, is less relevant than the fact that seemingly full time scene members are doing infinitely less and getting the bookings that might have kept him. It's like criticising the make up on a domestic abuse victim. CDJay
Elipton	Could someone correct me if I've completely misunderstood what's going on here. So I've not commented or kept up to date on this scenario since I first heard that it was in the works. I had no idea that Ham was asking for ?100 from a small group of people to exclusively receive his album. That's absolutely nuts. I was over the moon that he's returned with new content, but Hardcore has no chance of progressing with this method of releasing. The scene needs more people to access the music - even if it's for free - to grow. I drum on and on about how Hardcore should be more available on Spotify and on various Youtube channels to reach the wider markets, and here is one of the cult legends of scene who is doing exactly the opposite. Now, he will get the pledges, and those 100 people will receive the album and Ham gets his money, but it's absolutely and entirely selfish. Now, he's entirely within his own right to release music this way, but the way I see it, he's neglecting his responsibility to further the scene and community. He's taking ?10,000 out of it and offering 10 tracks that thousands of fans won't get to hear. I'm mind-numbingly dismayed at this. It goes against my ethos entirely. edit/trimmed I can't blame CDJay for his more defensive posts, I think a Ham album coming through Hardcore Underground would be fantastic in the future, and if it were to happen, I'd seriously consider buying it. I'm ever a Ham fan, but he needs to rethink why he's returned to us.
arpz	Look at it like this, if he didn't make the 10 grand, he wasn't going to take time out of his presumably higher paying dnb production gig with the biggest dnb label in the world. Why does he have a 'responsibility to further the scene' exactly? It's not like 'the scene' did a great deal to further Ham later on is it.
Elipton	edited/trimmed Anyone who enters and remains active in entertainment has a commitment to the community they intend to earn money from. As I say, Ham is within his rights to act this way, but he's taking from the scene, and not giving back. There are thousands of Hardcore fans that'd love his music that will miss out. Ham has no obligation to other competing Hardcore artists to sustain the scene, but by taking and not giving, he's hurting the scene for everyone else - and everyone else are the many fans that far outnumber Ham's competitors. I'll repeat that I have no issue with Ham, but if music production is his career, there're other ways to pay the bills than to charge ?10 a track. If, as a career producer, he's cooking up 4 or 5 tracks a month, he'd be having releases coming out every which way. Instead, we're seeing one RAM release every year. I'm trying to understand the motive behind this strategy, but there's not a lot of justification for it.
Cyrax	If people are willing to pay it then I don't see the big deal, people will get to hear these tracks played out because Ham CC'd in all the DJ's involved on the e-mail and there were some well known names in there. This is a good read whether you agree or disagree. http://www.kniteforcerevolution.com/posts/4-reasons-you-are-wrong-about-hams-album-idea/
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: If people are willing to pay it then I don't see the big deal, people will get to hear these tracks played out because Ham CC'd in all the DJ's involved on the e-mail and there were some well known names in there. This is a good read whether you agree or disagree. http://www.kniteforcerevolution.com/posts/4-reasons-you-are-wrong-about-hams-album-idea/ I gave that a skim through, and I'm making my posts with all of that in mind. I understand that to some people, that music is still value for money. Nothing in that post really changes my mind. As I say, I have no issue with the guy. He's not forcing anyone to pay for it. They do so on their own intuition. That's fine. I won't repeat my point. It wouldn't be fair. I've aired my concern at limited run albums from Rebuild or HU before. Ham is no different. This isn't about the people who do receive the album, it's about the opportunity cost to Hardcore on a whole. If Ham's come to us to survive the RAM shit-storm that I predict, he's more than welcome. A label or revival of Blatant Beats would not be sneered upon by any measure. More than enough people would dig that if he's looking for a long term plan in Hardcore. So I say this, and I hope he reads it, we'll look after you, bro. We're all fans here. edit: Further digging, looks like RAM were bought out by BMG to keep them floated in February. Their liabilities should have wound up the company. This usually doesn't have a good impact on the future releases, and I wonder if it resulted in Hamilton being axed from the roster. In turn, I've trimmed my posts where I've been a bit loose with my comments. I'll repeat again, I have no bone to pick
ViolonC	To poor some oil in the fire: the ppl that are pushing their music out there to new audiences are the beloved hh.com forum nemesis Gammer and Styles.
arpz	I don't see how this is 'taking from the scene'? You think it's going to be like, cause I paid ?100 for this album I'm going to stop buying the HU albums? This simply wouldn't have even started if he didn't reach the goal so then the music wouldn't exist at all, it only exists because people wanted it As for 'thousands of people' not being able to hear the tracks, they'll be included in mixes by everyone who bought it, plus quite a few more that clubbed in together so I don't really think that's a valid gripe. I reckon you're misjudging the RAM situation as well to be honest but I suppose that'll have to remain to be seen
arpz	quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: To poor some oil in the fire: the ppl that are pushing their music out there to new audiences are the beloved hh.com forum nemesis Gammer and Styles. They're not really though are they? They're producing wank trying to cater to a very fickle bunch of people that attend EDM events in the US. Those people aren't there to see hardcore, they're there to see whatever the hot fiyah is at the time and it's certainly not hardcore. Sure, they might pick up a few fans like that and from some idiot 'ironically' playing one of their tunes after a trap set but it's hardly pushing the sound forward in any meaningful way. Ham has been upfront with it - basically 'Look, I'm up for making some hardcore but it needs to pay ?10k to make it worthwhile' and no doubt it is going to be worthwhile for the people that bought it, and it'll be proper hardcore. Not shite.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by arpz: I don't see how this is 'taking from the scene'? You think it's going to be like, cause I paid ?100 for this album I'm going to stop buying the HU albums? This simply wouldn't have even started if he didn't reach the goal so then the music wouldn't exist at all, it only exists because people wanted it As for 'thousands of people' not being able to hear the tracks, they'll be included in mixes by everyone who bought it, plus quite a few more that clubbed in together so I don't really think that's a valid gripe. I reckon you're misjudging the RAM situation as well to be honest but I suppose that'll have to remain to be seen Well my response would generally explain this in a macro economic sense. You see, if consumers part with an average sum amount of cash annually, taking ?10,000 from that sum, will, even if marginally, reduce the rest of the capital flowing between consumers and labels. But that's all pretty irrelevant. I'm more worried about the opportunity cost. You have 10 tracks are being released to a very select group of people. You've mentioned that there's only a supply because there's a demand. There's far more demand in the scene than there is supply from ANY artist, let alone Ham and the 100 disciples. If you suggest there's demand enough to raise the price ten-fold, then I will refer you to Martin Shkreli. They won't be published on spotify or on youtube, and therefore their outreach will be minimal. If it doesn't serve to further Hardcore, their existence doesn't matter to the likes of me who is a general consumer. You have a Hardcore producer with an enormous following to start with, but instead of utilising that, he's releasing to 100 people privately. If I have 10 of my tracks and release them privately to 100 people, how will that help Hardcore? You mention mixes, which helps, but I rather doubt that the tracks will be played anywhere apart from events. Even when you consider event-going Hardcore fans, that's fractional. It would be hypocritical to release to a closed pool of people and then have the tracks made available in a digitally released mix. As for the RAM Records situation, I'm quite possibly wrong, but there's a trend of growing liability and loss since 2014, and it's fact that the company has become part of BMG. The facts paint a grim picture, and my mate who's an accountant confirmed my worry. That's a very major shake-up, and it will inevitably pose some decision-making for Ham.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: To poor some oil in the fire: the ppl that are pushing their music out there to new audiences are the beloved hh.com forum nemesis Gammer and Styles. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for that. I've cited and lauded them a few times on the forums as doing what is necessary to bring new fans to the industry.
arpz	I think you're contradicting yourself (maybe not)? You're making a couple of statements - 1) There's only so much money available to be spent on hardcore so Ham is taking money away from other people 2) There's more demand than there is supply Surely with all this demand, there's money to go around for everyone to buy what they want. And I agree, there's nowhere near enough good hardcore to spend all my money on so I will continue to buy everything I want even after outlaying for the Ham album. Re: mixes - everyones going to be playing them in mixes and putting them up on soundcloud and all that stuff, I'd say you're more likely to see that than you are event plays because there's only a limited number of (big name) DJ's that would even bother playing something from Ham/NG. You'll be hearing the tracks if you want to hear them, just like everyone else that wants to hear it so I really can't see that the 'you're keeping people back from enjoying it' argument stands up
Cyrax	I would have gone the full tonne, but fortunately some very trusting members of HHC.com went in on this with me. It works out at ?2.50 per WAV + potential stems for all the tracks to remix. It's a cracking deal, I'm hoping there's some decent vocal stuff on there.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by arpz: I think you're contradicting yourself (maybe not)? You're making a couple of statements - 1) There's only so much money available to be spent on hardcore so Ham is taking money away from other people 2) There's more demand than there is supply Surely with all this demand, there's money to go around for everyone to buy what they want. And I agree, there's nowhere near enough good hardcore to spend all my money on so I will continue to buy everything I want even after outlaying for the Ham album. I didn't want to reply again, but I can't help myself Yes, you're right, on the face of it, it's a contradiction, but consider the available supply from the top artists in Hardcore, those that the whole scene would be aware of. Your Gammers, Darren Styles, Hixxys and Ham would enter that category. Digital Labels with smaller market shares disregarded, there's far more demand than supply. However, in Hardcore as a whole, if someone's spending ?100 for 10 tracks, they're less inclined on a macro scale to do a shop on Beatport for yet more material. But like I say, I've made my points and I don't really want to go in circles on it (as topics I comment in tend to do xD)
arpz	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by arpz: I think you're contradicting yourself (maybe not)? You're making a couple of statements - 1) There's only so much money available to be spent on hardcore so Ham is taking money away from other people 2) There's more demand than there is supply Surely with all this demand, there's money to go around for everyone to buy what they want. And I agree, there's nowhere near enough good hardcore to spend all my money on so I will continue to buy everything I want even after outlaying for the Ham album. I didn't want to reply again, but I can't help myself Yes, you're right, on the face of it, it's a contradiction, but consider the available supply from the top artists in Hardcore, those that the whole scene would be aware of. Your Gammers, Darren Styles, Hixxys and Ham would enter that category. Digital Labels with smaller market shares disregarded, there's far more demand than supply. However, in Hardcore as a whole, if someone's spending ?100 for 10 tracks, they're less inclined on a macro scale to do a shop on Beatport for yet more material. I'll reply just to say that I disagree but might as well leave it at that because it's going to become cyclical edit: pretty sure your edit must've been basically the same thing as mine
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: To poor some oil in the fire: the ppl that are pushing their music out there to new audiences are the beloved hh.com forum nemesis Gammer and Styles. DJ SNAKE FOR LIFE!
djDMS	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: To poor some oil in the fire: the ppl that are pushing their music out there to new audiences are the beloved hh.com forum nemesis Gammer and Styles. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for that. I've cited and lauded them a few times on the forums as doing what is necessary to bring new fans to the industry. No, they're doing what is necessary to bring new fans to THEM and nobody else.
Sulphurik	An old Ham track I thought of again recently Is Anybody Out There? It's a track would be good to hear an update/ new remix of. It's a track that you would have thought another remix would have been done already eg. a Brisk & Ham or Brisk & Vagabond remix from 10 years ago. The Slipmatt & Ham remix from 96 was probably best version.
The drunken scotsman	Not sure why Ham would give two ****s about the hardcore scene. He was one of the the scenes finest producers for many a year with relatively little return in comparison with other, less talented, producers/Dj's. The digital revolution was probably the straw that broke the camels back and in taking his talents to D&B he probably earns more now than he ever did in hardcore.
Captain Triceps	quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: Not sure why Ham would give two ****s about the hardcore scene. He was one of the the scenes finest producers for many a year with relatively little return in comparison with other, less talented, producers/Dj's. The digital revolution was probably the straw that broke the camels back and in taking his talents to D&B he probably earns more now than he ever did in hardcore. He will definitely earn more in D&B than he did in hardcore. It doesn't mean he doesn't still have to love the music, it's a shame that he didn't get the DJ bookings but it's not like the fans of his music turned their backs on him. I hope he has been inspired to make more hardcore to sell at more realistic prices so we can all enjoy it equally. A man of his talents should be able to knock up tunes like nobodies business in his spare time anyway.
The drunken scotsman	quote: Originally posted by Captain Triceps: quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: Not sure why Ham would give two ****s about the hardcore scene. He was one of the the scenes finest producers for many a year with relatively little return in comparison with other, less talented, producers/Dj's. The digital revolution was probably the straw that broke the camels back and in taking his talents to D&B he probably earns more now than he ever did in hardcore. He will definitely earn more in D&B than he did in hardcore. It doesn't mean he doesn't still have to love the music, it's a shame that he didn't get the DJ bookings but it's not like the fans of his music turned their backs on him. I hope he has been inspired to make more hardcore to sell at more realistic prices so we can all enjoy it equally. A man of his talents should be able to knock up tunes like nobodies business in his spare time anyway. I think love for the music and love for 'the scene' are two completely different things. I've no doubt that he loves the music, that is shown by his previous commitment to hardcore despite the lack of bookings and by the fact that he's made a return of sorts to (hopefully!) produce 10 great tracks. On the assumption that these tracks are as good as we all hope and expect, then I'd also like him to make more. I'd be very surprised if he has any interest in helping to grow the hardcore scene though.
CDJay	I'll go off on a tangent. Exposure isn't always a good thing. Seen the Facebook live stuff last week? Audience is one tempting aspiration, helpful engagement is another. It takes a supreme ego to assume a million people watching you burn down an orphanage is always a good thing. Scenes are not based on, and sustainable from, random peacocking. CDJay
Impulse_Response	I'm upset about how sudden it was. It seemed like he basically said "Give me 100 pounds right now or you can't have it." I don't mind that he sold the album through informal means, but it does a disservice to fans who can't drop money like that on demand for music. That's why I'm always about a year behind on HU albums. Maybe make it 100 pounds but not limit the number of sales?
arpz	You had to commit quite quickly but only needed to pay ?25 up front, can't wait for everyone because there's always gonna be one who gets paid bi-monthly or has their tax rebate coming in 3 months etc lol
Impulse_Response	quote: Originally posted by arpz: You had to commit quite quickly but only needed to pay ?25 up front, can't wait for everyone because there's always gonna be one who gets paid bi-monthly or has their tax rebate coming in 3 months etc lol No reason to cut it off, though. All he has to do is say something like "if you want the album, send me an email and I'll get you a paypal link and then send a link to the album." It would probably be more than worth his time too, because he would get 100 pounds for a single email exchange. A few minutes of his time. I spend more than half a day at work to make that much.
The drunken scotsman	quote: Originally posted by Impulse_Response: quote: Originally posted by arpz: You had to commit quite quickly but only needed to pay ?25 up front, can't wait for everyone because there's always gonna be one who gets paid bi-monthly or has their tax rebate coming in 3 months etc lol No reason to cut it off, though. All he has to do is say something like "if you want the album, send me an email and I'll get you a paypal link and then send a link to the album." It would probably be more than worth his time too, because he would get 100 pounds for a single email exchange. A few minutes of his time. I spend more than half a day at work to make that much. The reason he set a limit at 100 is in the hope that the tracks won't be shared online for anyone to download.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by CDJay: I'll go off on a tangent. Exposure isn't always a good thing. Seen the Facebook live stuff last week? Audience is one tempting aspiration, helpful engagement is another. It takes a supreme ego to assume a million people watching you burn down an orphanage is always a good thing. Scenes are not based on, and sustainable from, random peacocking. CDJay That's one hell of a tangent.
Samination	quote: Originally posted by The drunken scotsman: quote: Originally posted by Impulse_Response: quote: Originally posted by arpz: You had to commit quite quickly but only needed to pay ?25 up front, can't wait for everyone because there's always gonna be one who gets paid bi-monthly or has their tax rebate coming in 3 months etc lol No reason to cut it off, though. All he has to do is say something like "if you want the album, send me an email and I'll get you a paypal link and then send a link to the album." It would probably be more than worth his time too, because he would get 100 pounds for a single email exchange. A few minutes of his time. I spend more than half a day at work to make that much. The reason he set a limit at 100 is in the hope that the tracks won't be shared online for anyone to download. I kinda wish that we could get to know how many that actually split the costs. Maybe he could've done 200 people spending 50 quid instead`?
arpz	Of course he needed to cut it off. Imagine how much more money he'd have taken out of your imaginary pool if he'd just left it to run.
djDMS	Even though I ultimately jumped on this, there are still plenty of reasons why I don't totally agree with it. In that weird situation where I agree with both the for and against arguments. Luckily, there are 300 people all paying me a tenner to share my copy so it's a win win for me.
Cyrax	Look if the majority of people didn't spend their benefits on puff and cans of tesco apple cider they would be able to afford the album
Vladel	I have a respectable career and make enough money but I also wont pay over the odds for anything. I don't like paying ?13 for a ten track M-project album but I do because I know it will be great, but if the reviews are rubbish, I wouldn't buy it. What ham has done is have people pay way over the odds with no idea what the finished product will be like. It's crazy and bad for the scene because it does take the music out of reach for anyone with half a brain. I can't respect him for it and he could have set his target for incone, got people to register interest and then price accordingly which would have been fair and much better for the scene. This will sound bitter and it probably is but I hope its terrible or at least I don't like any of the tracks so I don't feel I've missed out and then he leaves again never to return or he decides to come back properly and release music the conventional way. But I've always said that when you give music a crazy price or make it unavailable for purchase which this will be, there can be no surprise if it is copied and shared as it's a situation partially or the artists making. If you charge a reasonable price and someone can't be arsed to pay, that is wrong, but if you price spitefully, it's not a surprise and I would have no sympathy for you.
Captain Triceps	Nobody hates paying over the odds for things more than I do. I wouldn't have paid ?100 for the album, I couldn't justify it - but I wanted the tracks, which is why I pooled with a few other individuals to make it reasonable but not completely unfair to Ham, I can't see any of us leaking the tracks. And of course the chance to get the stems and that is a bonus too. If he had sold it at something like ?20, as a general release or maybe a few online stores, he'd likely not sold that many and not have made nearly as much money, and you can guarantee it would be available on a site for free within minutes. I'm not saying it absolutely won't happen this time like but you'd hope not. I don't believe though that he could possibly work solidly for this amount of time on 10 hardcore tracks, a man of his experience and expertise really should knock them out quicker than that, especially as there's no physical product to arrange. I think if he really wanted to he could bang out a hardcore track here and there, get them released on his label or someone else's, if he loves the music that much.
skarr	I have never, ever seen such a generic thoughtless name of tracks in my entire life, 'bounce 2 diss ' 'fresh beats ' ' yeah yeah yeah ' I genuinely Genuinely hope that he has put more thought and effort into actually making these tunes than he has naming them
skarr	' ready ' 'tonight 'searching for the feeling ' well worth ?100 lol.
skarr	Oh shit, sorry I forgot about 'fresh beats' bet that's DEFINITELY gonna be worth ?100 alone
skarr	' let's get this thing started ' , actual lol to anyone that has called me a twat or whatever, you, yes YOU paid ?100 for this piece of ****in shit.
skarr	I can't wait to hear 'fresh beats '
skarr	'Shut down ' , hello ?10,000 , absolute ****in DOUGHNUTS !!!!!
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by skarr: 'Shut down ' , hello ?10,000 , absolute ****in DOUGHNUTS !!!!! There's an edit button for a reason
skarr	quote: Originally posted by Captain Triceps: Nobody hates paying over the odds for things more than I do. I wouldn't have paid ?100 for the album, I couldn't justify it - but I wanted the tracks, which is why I pooled with a few other individuals to make it reasonable but not completely unfair to Ham, I can't see any of us leaking the tracks. And of course the chance to get the stems and that is a bonus too. If he had sold it at something like ?20, as a general release or maybe a few online stores, he'd likely not sold that many and not have made nearly as much money, and you can guarantee it would be available on a site for free within minutes. I'm not saying it absolutely won't happen this time like but you'd hope not. I don't believe though that he could possibly work solidly for this amount of time on 10 hardcore tracks, a man of his experience and expertise really should knock them out quicker than that, especially as there's no physical product to arrange. I think if he really wanted to he could bang out a hardcore track here and there, get them released on his label or someone else's, if he loves the music that much. Mate, he banged these tracks out in a day each TOPS, he probably already had most of em made , such ground-breaking originals like 'bounce 2 diss beat ' and 'fresh beats ' though I suppose took him a day n a half cause he obviously thought long and hard about the deeper meaning behind the tracks, there's absolutely NO WAY he banged out these tracks just for the cash, NO WAY was he just looking to make ?1000 per generic ******** track he knocked up.
skarr	He earns 1000s and 1000s of pounds from playing drum n bass all over the world every week, and now he's just pocketed 10 grand off you stupid mother****ers for banging out such ground-breaking originals like 'yeah yeah yeah ' and 'tonight '.
arpz	because hardcore tunes always have deep and meaningful names...
skarr	quote: Originally posted by arpz: because hardcore tunes always have deep and meaningful names... Yes, like ' fresh beats ' and 'ready', , all I'm saying is he's DEFINITELY put a lot of thought and effort into this album and there's absolutely NO WAY he's just banged out 10 generic tracks to pocket a quick 10 grand. I mean come on, he took a picture of him and brisk in the studio and everything.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by skarr: He earns 1000s and 1000s of pounds from playing drum n bass all over the world every week, and now he's just pocketed 10 grand off you stupid mother****ers for banging out such ground-breaking originals like 'yeah yeah yeah ' and 'tonight '. Spectacularly incorrect. Hamilton won't appear at a RAM event until August. The last event promoted on the Hamilton page was from the start of February. Check your facts and stop doing double-posts. Don't get me started about the ignorance of slating an album for it's track names..
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by arpz: because hardcore tunes always have deep and meaningful names... Yes, like ' fresh beats ' and 'ready', , all I'm saying is he's DEFINITELY put a lot of thought and effort into this album and there's absolutely NO WAY he's just banged out 10 generic tracks to pocket a quick 10 grand. I mean come on, he took a picture of him and brisk in the studio and everything. Sounds to me like Skarr couldn't afford the 100 pounds required for this album
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by arpz: because hardcore tunes always have deep and meaningful names... Yes, like ' fresh beats ' and 'ready', , all I'm saying is he's DEFINITELY put a lot of thought and effort into this album and there's absolutely NO WAY he's just banged out 10 generic tracks to pocket a quick 10 grand. I mean come on, he took a picture of him and brisk in the studio and everything. Sounds to me like Skarr couldn't afford the 100 pounds required for this album And he won't be able to, unless Corbyn wins in June and hikes all the benefits back up.
Samination	Vive Le Socialism!
djDMS	Great, he's out on day release again
skarr	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by skarr: He earns 1000s and 1000s of pounds from playing drum n bass all over the world every week, and now he's just pocketed 10 grand off you stupid mother**ers for banging out such ground-breaking originals like 'yeah yeah yeah ' and 'tonight '. Spectacularly incorrect. Hamilton won't appear at a RAM event until August. The last event promoted on the Hamilton page was from the start of February. Check your facts and stop doing double-posts. Don't get me started about the ignorance of slating an album for it's track names.. So he doesn't earn 1000s and 1000s of pounds from playing drum n bass all over the world then ? Maybe he's just taking a break ? He's signed to the biggest drum n bass label of all time, he's made SILLY cash , so now he's sitting back and putting another 10 grand in his pocket for doing absolutely ** all, other than ripping people off and posting the odd video and picture every now and again.
robertybob	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: ...spend their benefits on puff and cans of tesco apple cider.. Hardcore doesn't attract a higher class of ravers?
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by skarr: He earns 1000s and 1000s of pounds from playing drum n bass all over the world every week, and now he's just pocketed 10 grand off you stupid mother**ers for banging out such ground-breaking originals like 'yeah yeah yeah ' and 'tonight '. Spectacularly incorrect. Hamilton won't appear at a RAM event until August. The last event promoted on the Hamilton page was from the start of February. Check your facts and stop doing double-posts. Don't get me started about the ignorance of slating an album for it's track names.. So he doesn't earn 1000s and 1000s of pounds from playing drum n bass all over the world then ? Maybe he's just taking a break ? He's signed to the biggest drum n bass label of all time, he's made SILLY cash , so now he's sitting back and putting another 10 grand in his pocket for doing absolutely ** all, other than ripping people off and posting the odd video and picture every now and again. I can say with confidence that your estimation of what a D&B producer earns is highly inflated. Moreso, Ham has had one EP a year on the label with occasional compilation features. RAM might be a large label, but it's nothing like what it used to be, and D&B artists don't make a big packet out of producing the music. As with Hardcore artists, it's a labour of love that if done correctly can pay the bills. Does Ham have two 17-plate Maserati's on his drive? Lol. No. Probably more like a Mark 3 Mondeo and Pug 307 CC. Now please, with all your evidential first-hand experience, please tell me how wrong I am.
Owen P	The following tunes are now officially rubbish, due to boring names: Slipmatt - Hear Me Prodigy - Your Love Dougal & Vibes - Feel Free Gammer - Get Away Scott Brown - Now Is The Time and countless others
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: quote: Originally posted by skarr: He earns 1000s and 1000s of pounds from playing drum n bass all over the world every week, and now he's just pocketed 10 grand off you stupid mother**ers for banging out such ground-breaking originals like 'yeah yeah yeah ' and 'tonight '. Spectacularly incorrect. Hamilton won't appear at a RAM event until August. The last event promoted on the Hamilton page was from the start of February. Check your facts and stop doing double-posts. Don't get me started about the ignorance of slating an album for it's track names.. So he doesn't earn 1000s and 1000s of pounds from playing drum n bass all over the world then ? Maybe he's just taking a break ? He's signed to the biggest drum n bass label of all time, he's made SILLY cash , so now he's sitting back and putting another 10 grand in his pocket for doing absolutely ** all, other than ripping people off and posting the odd video and picture every now and again. I can say with confidence that your estimation of what a D&B producer earns is highly inflated. Moreso, Ham has had one EP a year on the label with occasional compilation features. RAM might be a large label, but it's nothing like what it used to be, and D&B artists don't make a big packet out of producing the music. As with Hardcore artists, it's a labour of love that if done correctly can pay the bills. Does Ham have two 17-plate Maserati's on his drive? Lol. No. Probably more like a Mark 3 Mondeo and Pug 307 CC. Now please, with all your evidential first-hand experience, please tell me how wrong I am. Elipton, stop biting you're making it too easy.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: Elipton, stop biting you're making it too easy. Nothing better to do, sadly
Owen P	If you're complaining about the sales model for the DJ Ham album, you need to grow the heck up! Here's why: There's an important historical context that seems to be absent from this whole thread. Reality check: Next Generation weathered the storm when the hardcore boat got shaky in the late 1990s. Those guys stuck to their guns and were instrumental to the scene's revival in the early 2000s. The whole hardcore scene owes Brisk & Ham a big fat dollop of gratitude and respect for that. Whatever way you look at it, Ham's recent "hiatus" is a sign that "the scene", again, wasn't treating him well. Judging by the content of his hardcore back catalogue, it'd be fair to assume that he'd had more than a passing interest in jungle/DnB music. Unfortunately, the inbred mentality of many people in both jungle/hardcore camps - which were once one big happy scene, let's not forget - always made it difficult for any artist to straddle the line and do both. DJ Krome & Mr Time tried it and were ridiculed by their peers. Shy FX once opened a set with a house record and sustained a violent reaction from the crowd (literally had stuff thrown at him). My point is: what Ham has done by moving into DnB was an act of bravery and artistic integrity. He didn't immediately stop making hardcore when he signed to Ram, either - that's something worth noting. And if you think he's rolling in cash after being signed exclusively to a label that puts out a couple of singles from each artist per year then I suggest you're not very good at maths. True talk: THERE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE A DJ HAM ALBUM at this point! The "scene" that some people think he's somehow indebted to just isn't healthy enough that he could put out an album and be confident he's gonna be fairly compensated for it. Is that Ham's fault? No! Can he reverse that situation by putting out an album on general release? Of course not! The way things were looking, we were all on course to get 0 more DJ Ham tracks, ever. It amazes me that people can complain about not being able to afford the album, while simultaneously implying that he should be willing to do it for no (or very little compensation). That's called hypocrisy. Or maybe even narcissism. He's a human being for goodness sake, he owes you absolutely nothing. He's paid his dues many times over in the scene. FFS! :D Ham obviously realllllly wanted to make a hardcore album, 100+ people obviously realllllly wanted to own it. I distinctly got the vibe that he wasn't sure the whole thing would work, but think about it. He's basically sat there and thought "Well... if I knew I could get ?10k for it, that would probably just about make it worthwhile". Anyone who doesn't see that ?10k is a pathetic amount of money to receive for producing a 10-track hardcore album just doesn't know what it takes to do so. That's why you're not DJ Ham, and he is. Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect Seriously. Writing, recording, producing, mixing, mastering < and that's just the musical side, not even taking into account the admin, organisation, delivery and support. And it's tough to put a value on all the unpaid hours of learning and honing your craft to be able to put out a product to the level of the average DJ Ham release. Get real. The thing is, he's earned sufficient trust with a big enough group of people to pull this off. This is for the HARDCORE hardcore fans, those for whom the album's worth is at least ?100. Personally I think he's mad for not charging ?250, or more. If I were his manager, this would be a ?100 4-track EP at best. Without this investment from loyal DJ Ham fans, the album simply wouldn't exist. That speaks volumes about how well he's served the scene to date, by the way. I realise not everybody has a spare ?100 lying around, but that's okay - you're going to receive exactly what you would have received had he not embarked on this project: nothing. You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go. Let's have some perspective. How much was the device you're using to get online? How much do you spend on a night out? You probably spend more than ?100 a month on transport. And he's allowing group buys - can't say fairer than that!!! I sympathise if funds are genuinely tight for you - most of us have been there at one time or another. But it's not DJ Ham's responsibility to fix your financial situation, or to use an album selling model that's makes it financially nonviable for him to even create it in the first place. If you can't afford to financially support the makers of things, then you simply can't have those things. That doesn't feel nice, but it's true for all of us.... including DJ Ham! BUT WAIT If the album's not up to scratch, or doesn't get delivered, then we have a whole other conversation to have. P.S. And if you're complaining about the track titles, I'm sure he won't mind if you rename the files and call the tracks whatever you like in the privacy of your own home. You flipping mug.
skarr	quote: Originally posted by Owen P: If you're complaining about the sales model for the DJ Ham album, you need to grow the heck up! Here's why: There's an important historical context that seems to be absent from this whole thread. Reality check: Next Generation weathered the storm when the hardcore boat got shaky in the late 1990s. Those guys stuck to their guns and were instrumental to the scene's revival in the early 2000s. The whole hardcore scene owes Brisk & Ham a big fat dollop of gratitude and respect for that. Whatever way you look at it, Ham's recent "hiatus" is a sign that "the scene", again, wasn't treating him well. Judging by the content of his hardcore back catalogue, it'd be fair to assume that he'd had more than a passing interest in jungle/DnB music. Unfortunately, the inbred mentality of many people in both jungle/hardcore camps - which were once one big happy scene, let's not forget - always made it difficult for any artist to straddle the line and do both. DJ Krome & Mr Time tried it and were ridiculed by their peers. Shy FX once opened a set with a house record and sustained a violent reaction from the crowd (literally had stuff thrown at him). My point is: what Ham has done by moving into DnB was an act of bravery and artistic integrity. He didn't immediately stop making hardcore when he signed to Ram, either - that's something worth noting. And if you think he's rolling in cash after being signed exclusively to a label that puts out a couple of singles from each artist per year then I suggest you're not very good at maths. True talk: THERE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE A DJ HAM ALBUM at this point! The "scene" that some people think he's somehow indebted to just isn't healthy enough that he could put out an album and be confident he's gonna be fairly compensated for it. Is that Ham's fault? No! Can he reverse that situation by putting out an album on general release? Of course not! The way things were looking, we were all on course to get 0 more DJ Ham tracks, ever. It amazes me that people can complain about not being able to afford the album, while simultaneously implying that he should be willing to do it for no (or very little compensation). That's called hypocrisy. Or maybe even narcissism. He's a human being for goodness sake, he owes you absolutely nothing. He's paid his dues many times over in the scene. FFS! :D Ham obviously realllllly wanted to make a hardcore album, 100+ people obviously realllllly wanted to own it. I distinctly got the vibe that he wasn't sure the whole thing would work, but think about it. He's basically sat there and thought "Well... if I knew I could get ?10k for it, that would probably just about make it worthwhile". Anyone who doesn't see that ?10k is a pathetic amount of money to receive for producing a 10-track hardcore album just doesn't know what it takes to do so. That's why you're not DJ Ham, and he is. Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect Seriously. Writing, recording, producing, mixing, mastering < and that's just the musical side, not even taking into account the admin, organisation, delivery and support. And it's tough to put a value on all the unpaid hours of learning and honing your craft to be able to put out a product to the level of the average DJ Ham release. Get real. The thing is, he's earned sufficient trust with a big enough group of people to pull this off. This is for the HARDCORE hardcore fans, those for whom the album's worth is at least ?100. Personally I think he's mad for not charging ?250, or more. If I were his manager, this would be a ?100 4-track EP at best. Without this investment from loyal DJ Ham fans, the album simply wouldn't exist. That speaks volumes about how well he's served the scene to date, by the way. I realise not everybody has a spare ?100 lying around, but that's okay - you're going to receive exactly what you would have received had he not embarked on this project: nothing. You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go. Let's have some perspective. How much was the device you're using to get online? How much do you spend on a night out? You probably spend more than ?100 a month on transport. And he's allowing group buys - can't say fairer than that!!! I sympathise if funds are genuinely tight for you - most of us have been there at one time or another. But it's not DJ Ham's responsibility to fix your financial situation, or to use an album selling model that's makes it financially nonviable for him to even create it in the first place. If you can't afford to financially support the makers of things, then you simply can't have those things. That doesn't feel nice, but it's true for all of us.... including DJ Ham! BUT WAIT If the album's not up to scratch, or doesn't get delivered, then we have a whole other conversation to have. P.S. And if you're complaining about the track titles, I'm sure he won't mind if you rename the files and call the tracks whatever you like in the privacy of your own home. You flipping mug. Mate, you are so ****in right in so many ways, I can't even think about arguing with you, let's just wait for the album n then have a discussion......
skarr	Cyrax, I have heard your music, I've got one word for it, 'BANGING ' , elipton I have only the same word to say about your music. You paying your bills off it though ?
arpz	Great post dude :)
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by skarr: Cyrax, I have heard your music, I've got one word for it, 'BANGING ' , elipton I have only the same word to say about your music. You paying your bills off it though ? Christ no But thank you
Samination	quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by Owen P: TL;DR Mate, you are so ****in right in so many ways, I can't even think about arguing with you, let's just wait for the album n then have a discussion...... Why are you agreeing? you're the biggest twat on the thread. Olly P: I dont anyone here where complaing about that Ham shouldn't get compensation for it. OFCOURSE he should. What I personally argue the most is that he should have lowerered the starting price per patron so that maybe even more would shell in, and he would get even more. Also, in my opionon, I know that the Scene (not us) has screwed up Ham, but with this, I feel like Ham is screwing the wrong persons (us, instead of the shitscene). quote: You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go. Ofcourse he asked for it. What if there wheren't 100 person who wanted to shell those 100 out? Then he probably wouldn't have bothered with the album. Dont forget there was a time limit on the bloody thing.
Owen P	quote: Originally posted by Samination: Why are you agreeing? He's agreeing because I made a well-reasoned argument. That's how discussions move forwards. You should try it sometime! ;) quote: you're the biggest twat on the thread. ^And here's an example of how discussions devolve into mindless nonsense. quote: Olly P: Nobody called that here. quote: I dont anyone here where complaing about that Ham shouldn't get compensation for it. Nobody said that here. quote: What I personally argue the most is that he should have lowerered the starting price per patron so that maybe even more would shell in, and he would get even more. More patrons required = less exclusivity and bigger risk. The exclusivity is what makes the model work. Out of interest, what do you feel would have been a fair price to bring DJ Ham out of hardcore retirement to produce 10 exclusive tracks? Serious question, please answer honestly. I can't help but feel you're seriously undervaluing him and his art/work/time. quote: Also, in my opionon, I know that the Scene (not us) has screwed up Ham, but with this, I feel like Ham is screwing the wrong persons (us, instead of the shitscene). If he doesn't deliver the album, or if the album is a load of old tosh, then he's screwing people. Otherwise he's rewarding the die hard fans for their loyalty and commitment. A fair transaction if ever I did see one. quote: You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go. Ofcourse he asked for it. Can you not read? I didn't say "he didn't ask for any money", I said "he didn't ask for it ALL IN ONE GO". In other words, if you feel like being asked for ?100 on the spot is a bit of a stretch, at least you've had many, many months to get the money together. quote: What if there wheren't 100 person who wanted to shell those 100 out? Then he probably wouldn't have bothered with the album. Wouldn't have bothered??? If there weren't 100 sets of ?100-paying people who wanted the album, then it would've been infeasible for him to even think about doing an album. Lowering the price, diminishing the exclusivity, and raising the risk to him would have made no sense. I hear there were many groups of 3 or 4 people buying in. Why don't you join them and get it for 1/4 or 1/5 of the price? Ham has been more than fair in permitting these kinds of arrangements. quote: Dont forget there was a time limit on the bloody thing. Well yes, of course. How else would you expect him to organise it? No time limit? Are you really that self-centred that you can't see that DJ Ham and his most die hard of fans deserve this? IF you want free/cheap music, go to SoundCloud, YouTube, or just Google. There's a never ending supply of free/cheap music, and there are people who would desperately like to pick up your plays. But if you want a piece of hardcore history from DJ flipping Ham, then you have to play by the rules that make it viable for him to produce/deliver it. Make no mistake: IF the album is total garbage, I'll be the first to drag him across the coals. However, I have a very, very strong feeling it won't be (and I'm not alone there!).
Samination	quote: Originally posted by Owen P: quote: Originally posted by Samination: Why are you agreeing? He's agreeing because I made a well-reasoned argument. That's how discussions move forwards. You should try it sometime! ;) quote: you're the biggest twat on the thread. ^And here's an example of how discussions devolve into mindless nonsense. If you had read the post he/she has made for the past few months, you would call it a twat too. quote: quote: Olly P: Nobody called that here. Sorry, honest misstake since I didn't even know who you are (or, well, you havent made enough posts here during my active to make me remember you). But there is a Olly P, but he's not in this current conversation. quote: quote: I dont anyone here where complaing about that Ham shouldn't get compensation for it. Nobody said that here. Well this discussion is on here, and you just wrote "people". quote: quote: What I personally argue the most is that he should have lowerered the starting price per patron so that maybe even more would shell in, and he would get even more. More patrons required = less exclusivity and bigger risk. The exclusivity is what makes the model work. Out of interest, what do you feel would have been a fair price to bring DJ Ham out of hardcore retirement to produce 10 exclusive tracks? Serious question, please answer honestly. I can't help but feel you're seriously undervaluing him and his art/work/time. You expecting me to say a tenner aren't you? No. But around half of what he asked for per person, aslong as he gets his goal of 10k. And to be honest, I am not a particular fan of DJ Ham. I did enjoy his colabs with Brisk and a few of his solo works. That is. Also, just to be extra snarky, most kind of work is devalued. Why should an artists work be more valued than someone cleaning the toilets? quote: quote: Also, in my opionon, I know that the Scene (not us) has screwed up Ham, but with this, I feel like Ham is screwing the wrong persons (us, instead of the shitscene). If he doesn't deliver the album, or if the album is a load of old tosh, then he's screwing people. Otherwise he's rewarding the die hard fans for their loyalty and commitment. A fair transaction if ever I did see one. I guess we'll see as soon as the tracks drop. quote: quote: You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go. Ofcourse he asked for it. Can you not read? I didn't say "he didn't ask for any money", I said "he didn't ask for it ALL IN ONE GO". In other words, if you feel like being asked for ?100 on the spot is a bit of a stretch, at least you've had many, many months to get the money together. I know what he wrote. https://www.happyhardcore.com/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=83967 But I will take back the bit about it being on a time limit. quote: quote: What if there wheren't 100 person who wanted to shell those 100 out? Then he probably wouldn't have bothered with the album. Bothered? If there weren't 100 sets of ?100-paying people who wanted the album, then it would have been infeasible for him to even think about doing an album. Lowering the price, diminishing the exclusivity, and raising the risk to him would make no sense. I hear there were many groups of 3 or 4 people buying in. Why don't you join them and get it for 1/4 or 1/5 of the price? Ham has been more than fair in permitting these kinds of arrangements. I did. quote: quote: Dont forget there was a time limit on the bloody thing. Well yes, of course. How else would you expect him to organise it? No time limit? Are you really that self-centred that you can't see that DJ Ham and his most die hard of fans deserve this? Checking back, I dont think he mentioned anything about a time limit. Just a feasibly amount of time to pass to garner the 100 people. quote: Make no mistake: IF the album is total garbage, I'll be the first to drag him across the coals. I've got a very, very strong feeling it won't be (and I'm not alone there!). You just defended skarr from my attack, the person who complained about the tracknaming DJ Ham made :P
skarr	quote: Originally posted by Samination: quote: Originally posted by Owen P: quote: Originally posted by Samination: Why are you agreeing? He's agreeing because I made a well-reasoned argument. That's how discussions move forwards. You should try it sometime! ;) quote: you're the biggest twat on the thread. ^And here's an example of how discussions devolve into mindless nonsense. If you had read the post he/she has made for the past few months, you would call it a twat too. quote: quote: Olly P: Nobody called that here. Sorry, honest misstake since I didn't even know who you are (or, well, you havent made enough posts here during my active to make me remember you). But there is a Olly P, but he's not in this current conversation. quote: quote: I dont anyone here where complaing about that Ham shouldn't get compensation for it. Nobody said that here. Well this discussion is on here, and you just wrote "people". quote: quote: What I personally argue the most is that he should have lowerered the starting price per patron so that maybe even more would shell in, and he would get even more. More patrons required = less exclusivity and bigger risk. The exclusivity is what makes the model work. Out of interest, what do you feel would have been a fair price to bring DJ Ham out of hardcore retirement to produce 10 exclusive tracks? Serious question, please answer honestly. I can't help but feel you're seriously undervaluing him and his art/work/time. You expecting me to say a tenner aren't you? No. But around half of what he asked for per person, aslong as he gets his goal of 10k. And to be honest, I am not a particular fan of DJ Ham. I did enjoy his colabs with Brisk and a few of his solo works. That is. Also, just to be extra snarky, most kind of work is devalued. Why should an artists work be more valued than someone cleaning the toilets? quote: quote: Also, in my opionon, I know that the Scene (not us) has screwed up Ham, but with this, I feel like Ham is screwing the wrong persons (us, instead of the shitscene). If he doesn't deliver the album, or if the album is a load of old tosh, then he's screwing people. Otherwise he's rewarding the die hard fans for their loyalty and commitment. A fair transaction if ever I did see one. I guess we'll see as soon as the tracks drop. quote: quote: You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go. Ofcourse he asked for it. Can you not read? I didn't say "he didn't ask for any money", I said "he didn't ask for it ALL IN ONE GO". In other words, if you feel like being asked for ?100 on the spot is a bit of a stretch, at least you've had many, many months to get the money together. I know what he wrote. https://www.happyhardcore.com/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=83967 But I will take back the bit about it being on a time limit. quote: quote: What if there wheren't 100 person who wanted to shell those 100 out? Then he probably wouldn't have bothered with the album. Bothered? If there weren't 100 sets of ?100-paying people who wanted the album, then it would have been infeasible for him to even think about doing an album. Lowering the price, diminishing the exclusivity, and raising the risk to him would make no sense. I hear there were many groups of 3 or 4 people buying in. Why don't you join them and get it for 1/4 or 1/5 of the price? Ham has been more than fair in permitting these kinds of arrangements. I did. quote: quote: Dont forget there was a time limit on the bloody thing. Well yes, of course. How else would you expect him to organise it? No time limit? Are you really that self-centred that you can't see that DJ Ham and his most die hard of fans deserve this? Checking back, I dont think he mentioned anything about a time limit. Just a feasibly amount of time to pass to garner the 100 people. quote: Make no mistake: IF the album is total garbage, I'll be the first to drag him across the coals. I've got a very, very strong feeling it won't be (and I'm not alone there!). You just defended skarr from my attack, the person who complained about the tracknaming DJ Ham made :P Sorry but everyone has been judging the hh2 album on it's tracklist, which I think looks incredible to be honest, I haven't judged the album, I just said I hope he has put more thought and effort into making the tracks than he has naming them.
skarr	quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by Owen P: If you're complaining about the sales model for the DJ Ham album, you need to grow the heck up! Here's why: There's an important historical context that seems to be absent from this whole thread. Reality check: Next Generation weathered the storm when the hardcore boat got shaky in the late 1990s. Those guys stuck to their guns and were instrumental to the scene's revival in the early 2000s. The whole hardcore scene owes Brisk & Ham a big fat dollop of gratitude and respect for that. Whatever way you look at it, Ham's recent "hiatus" is a sign that "the scene", again, wasn't treating him well. Judging by the content of his hardcore back catalogue, it'd be fair to assume that he'd had more than a passing interest in jungle/DnB music. Unfortunately, the inbred mentality of many people in both jungle/hardcore camps - which were once one big happy scene, let's not forget - always made it difficult for any artist to straddle the line and do both. DJ Krome & Mr Time tried it and were ridiculed by their peers. Shy FX once opened a set with a house record and sustained a violent reaction from the crowd (literally had stuff thrown at him). My point is: what Ham has done by moving into DnB was an act of bravery and artistic integrity. He didn't immediately stop making hardcore when he signed to Ram, either - that's something worth noting. And if you think he's rolling in cash after being signed exclusively to a label that puts out a couple of singles from each artist per year then I suggest you're not very good at maths. True talk: THERE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE A DJ HAM ALBUM at this point! The "scene" that some people think he's somehow indebted to just isn't healthy enough that he could put out an album and be confident he's gonna be fairly compensated for it. Is that Ham's fault? No! Can he reverse that situation by putting out an album on general release? Of course not! The way things were looking, we were all on course to get 0 more DJ Ham tracks, ever. It amazes me that people can complain about not being able to afford the album, while simultaneously implying that he should be willing to do it for no (or very little compensation). That's called hypocrisy. Or maybe even narcissism. He's a human being for goodness sake, he owes you absolutely nothing. He's paid his dues many times over in the scene. FFS! :D Ham obviously realllllly wanted to make a hardcore album, 100+ people obviously realllllly wanted to own it. I distinctly got the vibe that he wasn't sure the whole thing would work, but think about it. He's basically sat there and thought "Well... if I knew I could get ?10k for it, that would probably just about make it worthwhile". Anyone who doesn't see that ?10k is a pathetic amount of money to receive for producing a 10-track hardcore album just doesn't know what it takes to do so. That's why you're not DJ Ham, and he is. Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect Seriously. Writing, recording, producing, mixing, mastering < and that's just the musical side, not even taking into account the admin, organisation, delivery and support. And it's tough to put a value on all the unpaid hours of learning and honing your craft to be able to put out a product to the level of the average DJ Ham release. Get real. The thing is, he's earned sufficient trust with a big enough group of people to pull this off. This is for the HARDCORE hardcore fans, those for whom the album's worth is at least ?100. Personally I think he's mad for not charging ?250, or more. If I were his manager, this would be a ?100 4-track EP at best. Without this investment from loyal DJ Ham fans, the album simply wouldn't exist. That speaks volumes about how well he's served the scene to date, by the way. I realise not everybody has a spare ?100 lying around, but that's okay - you're going to receive exactly what you would have received had he not embarked on this project: nothing. You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go. Let's have some perspective. How much was the device you're using to get online? How much do you spend on a night out? You probably spend more than ?100 a month on transport. And he's allowing group buys - can't say fairer than that!!! I sympathise if funds are genuinely tight for you - most of us have been there at one time or another. But it's not DJ Ham's responsibility to fix your financial situation, or to use an album selling model that's makes it financially nonviable for him to even create it in the first place. If you can't afford to financially support the makers of things, then you simply can't have those things. That doesn't feel nice, but it's true for all of us.... including DJ Ham! BUT WAIT If the album's not up to scratch, or doesn't get delivered, then we have a whole other conversation to have. P.S. And if you're complaining about the track titles, I'm sure he won't mind if you rename the files and call the tracks whatever you like in the privacy of your own home. You flipping mug. Mate, you are so ****in right in so many ways, I can't even think about arguing with you, let's just wait for the album n then have a discussion...... Apart from the mug bit, yet, let's wait till the album is out before anyone gets called a mug, it could be me, or it could be the 100 people that brought it....
skarr	!).[/quote] You just defended skarr from my attack, the person who complained about the tracknaming DJ Ham made :P [/quote] Prick., you feeling bad you just been put in your place by one of the bigger boys,? So your trying to turn the attention back to me, classic bullying technique, all I talk about here is the topic at hand, which some people get so upset about it probably affects there day 2 day life so much they have to start throwing personal insults to make themselves feel better.
Owen P	quote: Originally posted by Samination: If you had read the post he/she has made for the past few months, you would call it a twat too. No I wouldn't, you don't speak for me. quote: quote: quote: I dont anyone here where complaing about that Ham shouldn't get compensation for it. Nobody said that here. Well this discussion is on here, and you just wrote "people". Irrelevant. The point is, saying Ham "shouldn't get compensation for it" represents nobody's position in this thread. I'm not sure why you brought that up, it's a straw man argument. quote: You expecting me to say a tenner aren't you? No. quote: No. But around half of what he asked for per person, aslong as he gets his goal of 10k. So go in with one other person and you pay half. Good grief, the maths isn't complicated. quote: And to be honest, I am not a particular fan of DJ Ham. Well that's the real issue then, isn't it? You're not a die hard DJ Ham fan. It's the die hards in particular that have supported him over the years and it's the die hards in particular who the album is aimed at rewarding. If you don't fall into that bracket then I don't know why you're getting so up in arms about it. quote: Also, just to be extra snarky, most kind of work is devalued. Why should an artists work be more valued than someone cleaning the toilets? I'll tell you why: because in a free world/society/market, you're rewarded by natural market forces for the value that you bring. There's only one DJ Ham. Note that there are plenty of toilet cleaners who are doing better financially than the vast majority of artists out there. quote: I guess we'll see as soon as the tracks drop. Indeed. quote: I know what he wrote. https://www.happyhardcore.com/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=83967 But I will take back the bit about it being on a time limit. Yes. An honest man putting the feelers out and doing his best to be reasonable and to minimise risk. I have an intuition about you, Samination - and this is not an attack. My intuition is that you've never put a serious amount of risk into following your passion or attempting to make a living off your own back (i.e. resisting the temptation of a regular month-to-month wage working in a job). Either that, or you've had business/artistic ventures that you ran into the ground that failed miserably. DJ Ham is an individual who's put everything on the line to have a career in music. Without people like him, there would be no scene at all. And I don't know for sure, but I would guess that there were some very, very hard times and personal sacrifices along the way. There usually is. Don't get me wrong - I appreciate clean toilets, but I think I'd rather clean my toilets by myself than live in a world with no good music. Some perspective, please. quote: You just defended skarr from my attack, the person who complained about the tracknaming DJ Ham made :P I didn't defend anyone at all. Skarr got the brunt of my original statement, but took it like an adult.
Elipton	All this drama, and I've not even seen the album artwork yet... And Olly P is a nice kid. Gotta feel sorry for him since the trend of Olly's in Hardcore tends to be that of knob-heads
Cyrax	I can't keep up with all these quotes
Owen P	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: All this drama, and I've not even seen the album artwork yet... LEAKED... the DJ Ham album artwork:
djDMS	Bet there won't be any
skarr	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: Bet there won't be any There is, but it's an extra ?80 .
skarr	80 pounds, why the **** did pound signs show up as question marks ?"
Elipton	goes thermonuclear
skarr	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: All this drama, and I've not even seen the album artwork yet... And Olly P is a nice kid. Gotta feel sorry for him since the trend of Olly's in Hardcore tends to be that of knob-heads Olly p made some killers, what happened to him ?
Owen P	quote: Originally posted by skarr: Olly p made some killers, what happened to him ? I heard he cleans toilets for a living now
Samination	quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: All this drama, and I've not even seen the album artwork yet... And Olly P is a nice kid. Gotta feel sorry for him since the trend of Olly's in Hardcore tends to be that of knob-heads Olly p made some killers, what happened to him ? Still active by the looks of it: https://soundcloud.com/newollypmusic
Samination	quote: Originally posted by Owen P: I have an intuition about you, Samination - and this is not an attack. My intuition is that you've never put a serious amount of risk into following your passion or attempting to make a living off your own back (i.e. resisting the temptation of a regular month-to-month wage working in a job). Either that, or you've had business/artistic ventures that you ran into the ground that failed miserably. DJ Ham is an individual who's put everything on the line to have a career in music. Without people like him, there would be no scene at all. And I don't know for sure, but I would guess that there were some very, very hard times and personal sacrifices along the way. There usually is. Don't get me wrong - I appreciate clean toilets, but I think I'd rather clean my toilets by myself than live in a world with no good music. Some perspective, please. quote: You just defended skarr from my attack, the person who complained about the tracknaming DJ Ham made :P I didn't defend anyone at all. Skarr got the brunt of my original statement, but took it like an adult. Well the intuition is partially right. I would prefer a steady workpay than risking a career in something as doomed as the British Hardcore scene. But I do wish that I had interest in making music early on. Even if it can be a hard job do it, it still seems like fun. But I would've consider as a hobby, just like my DJing (which, is kinda lacking atm). I'm stopping there, cause whatever I thought of writting was just going to make me bigger dick, and you would probably not care for what I'd say anyways.
Samination	quote: Originally posted by Owen P: quote: Originally posted by skarr: Olly p made some killers, what happened to him ? I heard he cleans toilets for a living now He's winning DJ/productions competitions in Vietnam. What are you doing? (What? Did I just write that I would writing stupid things? well that was before I saw this...).
skarr	quote: Originally posted by Samination: quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: All this drama, and I've not even seen the album artwork yet... And Olly P is a nice kid. Gotta feel sorry for him since the trend of Olly's in Hardcore tends to be that of knob-heads Olly p made some killers, what happened to him ? Still active by the looks of it: https://soundcloud.com/newollypmusic Why are you replying to my posts if I'm the biggest twat here ? Oh sorry I forgot, I'm not the biggest twat am I, bullies always try n squirm their way out in the end, 'stop picking on me because I am actually a twat and let me try divert people to picking on the original target that I 'attacked ', you ****in worm.
arpz	quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by Samination: quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: All this drama, and I've not even seen the album artwork yet... And Olly P is a nice kid. Gotta feel sorry for him since the trend of Olly's in Hardcore tends to be that of knob-heads Olly p made some killers, what happened to him ? Still active by the looks of it: https://soundcloud.com/newollypmusic Why are you replying to my posts if I'm the biggest twat here ? Oh sorry I forgot, I'm not the biggest twat am I, bullies always try n squirm their way out in the end, 'stop picking on me because I am actually a twat and let me try divert people to picking on the original target that I 'attacked ', you ****in worm. You are a bit of a twat though to be fair
skarr	Samination I have just listened to your music !!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! **in PATHETIC! No wonder your a bully that pipes down when he gets put in his place, if there's 1 thing I HATE, Its a **in bully.
skarr	quote: Originally posted by arpz: quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by Samination: quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by Elipton: All this drama, and I've not even seen the album artwork yet... And Olly P is a nice kid. Gotta feel sorry for him since the trend of Olly's in Hardcore tends to be that of knob-heads Olly p made some killers, what happened to him ? Still active by the looks of it: https://soundcloud.com/newollypmusic Why are you replying to my posts if I'm the biggest twat here ? Oh sorry I forgot, I'm not the biggest twat am I, bullies always try n squirm their way out in the end, 'stop picking on me because I am actually a twat and let me try divert people to picking on the original target that I 'attacked ', you ****in worm. You are a bit of a twat though to be fair Yea I'm not gonna argue with that, a bit of a twat is an understatement to be Fair, but at least I'm not a squirmy wormy little bully that's acts like a sorry little butterfly when I get put in my place, like Sanitation is.
skarr	Arpz i just had a quick flick through your December 2016 mix, was quite impressed, mixing sounded tight and good few tunes I have never heard before, will give it a proper listen later as it sounds like it might be worth an hour of my time.
arpz	Oh Ok then, you're not really a twat
Dy5oN	quote: Originally posted by Samination: He's winning DJ/productions competitions in Vietnam. What are you doing? (What? Did I just write that I would writing stupid things? well that was before I saw this...). +1. He's also still banging out great tracks. I've recently had him to do a remix of one of my tracks and it surpassed all my expectations. But anyway, even now I'm still confused about this whole thing. If Ham was doing this for the love of the music, he wouldn't have put a limit on the number of people who could get the tracks. If he was doing it for the money then he could have made more money, by again not setting a limit; he could have even used Kickstarter and gained more than 10000 quid even after their 5pc fee.
skarr	quote: Originally posted by arpz: Oh Ok then, you're not really a twat Don't go back on what you said mate, I'm a lot things but I'm not a liar, if I thought your mix was sh.it I would say it was sh.it, sanitation sanitary towel nations music on the other hand.....
skarr	Sanitarynation, big in the game for about a 10 minute PERIOD.
arpz	quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by arpz: Oh Ok then, you're not really a twat Don't go back on what you said mate, I'm a lot things but I'm not a liar, if I thought your mix was sh.it I would say it was sh.it, sanitation sanitary towel nations music on the other hand..... Ok, you're still a twat
skarr	quote: Originally posted by arpz: quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by arpz: Oh Ok then, you're not really a twat Don't go back on what you said mate, I'm a lot things but I'm not a liar, if I thought your mix was sh.it I would say it was sh.it, sanitation sanitary towel nations music on the other hand..... Ok, you're still a twat A ' BIT of twat' you said, please don't pick on me boys! Let's turn it back round on the person that I 'ATTACKED ' , but then actually it was myself that got made out to be an actual sanitary pad TWAT !
skarr	quote: Originally posted by Dy5oN: quote: Originally posted by Samination: He's winning DJ/productions competitions in Vietnam. What are you doing? (What? Did I just write that I would writing stupid things? well that was before I saw this...). +1. He's also still banging out great tracks. I've recently had him to do a remix of one of my tracks and it surpassed all my expectations. But anyway, even now I'm still confused about this whole thing. If Ham was doing this for the love of the music, he wouldn't have put a limit on the number of people who could get the tracks. If he was doing it for the money then he could have made more money, by again not setting a limit; he could have even used Kickstarter and gained more than 10000 quid even after their 5pc fee. How do we know he's only limited it to 100 ? Just because that's what he's told us? It could be 2 or 300 for all we know, seen any proof?
arpz	quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by Dy5oN: quote: Originally posted by Samination: He's winning DJ/productions competitions in Vietnam. What are you doing? (What? Did I just write that I would writing stupid things? well that was before I saw this...). +1. He's also still banging out great tracks. I've recently had him to do a remix of one of my tracks and it surpassed all my expectations. But anyway, even now I'm still confused about this whole thing. If Ham was doing this for the love of the music, he wouldn't have put a limit on the number of people who could get the tracks. If he was doing it for the money then he could have made more money, by again not setting a limit; he could have even used Kickstarter and gained more than 10000 quid even after their 5pc fee. How do we know he's only limited it to 100 ? Just because that's what he's told us? It could be 2 or 300 for all we know, seen any proof? He sent out an email to everyone and put the names in CC instead of BCC (presumably by mistake). It looked like about one hundred addresses. Of course, that may be part of some elaborate ruse where he sent emails to two lists of people but I highly doubt it somehow.
skarr	Dy5on, just had a quick listen to your tracks, not heard of you before but I'm quite intrigued now as it sounds like you have a fair bit of potential, keep up the good work.
iggyk23	some kid will read how ham made 10k of a hc album and will think whoa i m a make house music album and buy a lambo, lots of kids come into scene with silly delusions, i was one of them decade and a half ago, anyway this is actually quite amazing, 7 years ago i had a vocal house song in top20 house chart on traxsource or trackitdown.net, i dont remember which one, anyway i made 13 euros from this success, it was also on one compilation so i also got some decent cash from that, but my point is thats how it goes, you get 13 euros of sales of a decent song of a pretty popular genre so what ham is doing here with an obscure genre is beyond amazing, big ups to him, as a nobody if a made a hc album, which i was thinking about i would share it for free because what would i make of signing it, couple of euros. personally i like his sound, his songs always stood out a lot to me because he used to do actuall happy hardcore stuff with modern sound, bouncy bonkers tunes just with modern sounds, stuff like gammer would ocassionally do or stormtropper fellow, if i recall correctly.(i m talking about 10 years ago when i was into this and scene was pretty much alive) last i heard of ham was hit the deck, was on some compilation and it was the tits, he used to use breaks in his songs
skarr	quote: Originally posted by iggyk23: some kid will read how ham made 10k of a hc album and will think whoa i m a make house music album and buy a lambo, lots of kids come into scene with silly delusions, i was one of them decade and a half ago, anyway this is actually quite amazing, 7 years ago i had a vocal house song in top20 house chart on traxsource or trackitdown.net, i dont remember which one, anyway i made 13 euros from this success, it was also on one compilation so i also got some decent cash from that, but my point is thats how it goes, you get 13 euros of sales of a decent song of a pretty popular genre so what ham is doing here with an obscure genre is beyond amazing, big ups to him, as a nobody if a made a hc album, which i was thinking about i would share it for free because what would i make of signing it, couple of euros. personally i like his sound, his songs always stood out a lot to me because he used to do actuall happy hardcore stuff with modern sound, bouncy bonkers tunes just with modern sounds, stuff like gammer would ocassionally do or stormtropper fellow, if i recall correctly.(i m talking about 10 years ago when i was into this and scene was pretty much alive) last i heard of ham was hit the deck, was on some compilation and it was the tits, he used to use breaks in his songs Let's hear your house song then mate ?
skarr	quote: Originally posted by iggyk23: some kid will read how ham made 10k of a hc album and will think whoa i m a make house music album and buy a lambo, lots of kids come into scene with silly delusions, i was one of them decade and a half ago, anyway this is actually quite amazing, 7 years ago i had a vocal house song in top20 house chart on traxsource or trackitdown.net, i dont remember which one, anyway i made 13 euros from this success, it was also on one compilation so i also got some decent cash from that, but my point is thats how it goes, you get 13 euros of sales of a decent song of a pretty popular genre so what ham is doing here with an obscure genre is beyond amazing, big ups to him, as a nobody if a made a hc album, which i was thinking about i would share it for free because what would i make of signing it, couple of euros. personally i like his sound, his songs always stood out a lot to me because he used to do actuall happy hardcore stuff with modern sound, bouncy bonkers tunes just with modern sounds, stuff like gammer would ocassionally do or stormtropper fellow, if i recall correctly.(i m talking about 10 years ago when i was into this and scene was pretty much alive) last i heard of ham was hit the deck, was on some compilation and it was the tits, he used to use breaks in his songs And which compilation was it On?
iggyk23	alright but i feel like spaming now, its dumb, this is dj ham thread: https://www.traxsource.com/title/45144/your-heart-is-calling http://get-albums.ru/electronic/house/print:page,1,306206-va-dj-fresh-euphonik-present-f.eu-2010.html im on cd2 track 3
latininxtc	Damn I came in here wondering how the hell this thread blew up into this many pages in a matter of days. Then I see skarr's name in here and now I see why...
skarr	quote: Originally posted by iggyk23: alright but i feel like spaming now, its dumb, this is dj ham thread: https://www.traxsource.com/title/45144/your-heart-is-calling http://get-albums.ru/electronic/house/print:page,1,306206-va-dj-fresh-euphonik-present-f.eu-2010.html im on cd2 track 3 Just listened to the original, it's a real bumpy groover, has that kind of authentic old ish Grindy house sound that I love, fair play to you mate, willcheck out the other mixes later.
iggyk23	thanks, it was a long time ago when house was still house
skarr	House is still house , id post some links but me and my housemate are watching boxing on YouTube, so I can't post links without turning the boxing off, but there are still some real bumpy grinding bass driven steppas about, I'll show you a few tomorrow....
Samination	quote: Originally posted by skarr: Why are you replying to my posts if I'm the biggest twat here ? Oh sorry I forgot, I'm not the biggest twat am I, bullies always try n squirm their way out in the end, 'stop picking on me because I am actually a twat and let me try divert people to picking on the original target that I 'attacked ', you **in worm. Because compared to you, I can let things slide for more than 5 minutes. Or did you rather have me being mean to you all the time? quote: Samination I have just listened to your music !!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! in PATHETIC! No wonder your a bully that pipes down when he gets put in his place, if there's 1 thing I HATE, Its a **in bully. Bully? You're a Jeremy Kyle reject aren't you? <- Now that's bullying Calling you for acting like an idiot, no that's not bullying. And for the record, I haven't made any kind of music (even I wouldn't call the few tracks I made in eJay for music). quote: Sanitarynation, big in the game for about a 10 minute PERIOD. Sorry Kyle-reject, I have work and a life to attend to. I can't spend the days posting or reading shit.
robertybob	quote: Originally posted by Samination: And for the record, I haven't made any kind of music (even I wouldn't call the few tracks I made in eJay for music). Where can I hear these? I've recently bought a 12 year old PC* just so I can run Win 98 and use Dance eJay 1-4 :D I spent a lot of time in of my early teens creating crappy little tracks (!) lol * yes I know you can emulate Win98 on a modern PC but trust me that the Ejay programs won't work, already tried :(
GrahamC	quote: Originally posted by robertybob: quote: Originally posted by Samination: And for the record, I haven't made any kind of music (even I wouldn't call the few tracks I made in eJay for music). Where can I hear these? I've recently bought a 12 year old PC* just so I can run Win 98 and use Dance eJay 1-4 :D I spent a lot of time in of my early teens creating crappy little tracks (!) lol * yes I know you can emulate Win98 on a modern PC but trust me that the Ejay programs won't work, already tried :( Works fine for me on a Win98 VM running inside VMWare Player
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by GrahamC: quote: Originally posted by robertybob: quote: Originally posted by Samination: And for the record, I haven't made any kind of music (even I wouldn't call the few tracks I made in eJay for music). Where can I hear these? I've recently bought a 12 year old PC* just so I can run Win 98 and use Dance eJay 1-4 :D I spent a lot of time in of my early teens creating crappy little tracks (!) lol * yes I know you can emulate Win98 on a modern PC but trust me that the Ejay programs won't work, already tried :( Works fine for me on a Win98 VM running inside VMWare Player I think older games tend to be 16-bit, and they won't work with newer 32/64 bit machines sadly. But virtual machines is the best way to go. Old machines are just cool to learn about though. You should see my desk right now. PSUs and hard drives everywhere. Trying to inject the muscle in the work horse to make her suitable for production again.
robertybob	quote: Originally posted by GrahamC: quote: Originally posted by robertybob: quote: Originally posted by Samination: And for the record, I haven't made any kind of music (even I wouldn't call the few tracks I made in eJay for music). Where can I hear these? I've recently bought a 12 year old PC* just so I can run Win 98 and use Dance eJay 1-4 :D I spent a lot of time in of my early teens creating crappy little tracks (!) lol * yes I know you can emulate Win98 on a modern PC but trust me that the Ejay programs won't work, already tried :( Works fine for me on a Win98 VM running inside VMWare Player I kept getting some dll related error (a certain dll missing perhaps?), but then again it was quite a few years ago. Thanks for the info !
Samination	Not sure about 64 bit systems (ejay is 32-bit btw), but the Dance/Rave eJay combo worked on Windows XP atleast. rob: possibly a missing directx dll. Usually (re)installing the kit that's on the CDs should work.
robertybob	Cheers Sam :) Here's pretty much the 'best of' of the stuff I made 13 years ago (!) https://theprojecttoinfinity.bandcamp.com
Cyrax	Album drops today! More than happy to share any remixes I do with the backers!
arpz	I'm listening, are you? :D Enjoying this largely
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by arpz: I'm listening, are you? :D Enjoying this largely I have to wait until I'm home :(
Impulse_Response	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: Album drops today! More than happy to share any remixes I do with the backers! Are you not allowed to share remixes with non-backers?
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by Impulse_Response: quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: Album drops today! More than happy to share any remixes I do with the backers! Are you not allowed to share remixes with non-backers? The backers I hope are bound to this covenant typy agreement where no one is going to share/leak the album, and been as i'm not allowed to share the any remixes I'd imagine they can be trusted.
GrahamC	I am loving this, downloaded at the speed of light at work! First pass at the tracks and there was nothing I thought was rubbish, couple of gems I will go back to straight away! Loading to my iPod to give it a proper listen on the train home. Bonus tracks as well! Money well spent IMO. First hardcore of 2017 (for me) is sounding pretty good!
djDMS	Downloading now, can't wait to hear it
arpz	Here's a little teaser for all the paupers on the forum ;) Here's a quite frankly mean and nasty tease of some of the stuff featured on the new exclusive DJ Ham album for those of you wondering whether he's still got it :) Ham & Robbie Long - Ready Ham - Bounce 2 Dis Beat Ham - Yeah Yeah Yeah Ham - Let's Get This Thing Started Ham - One and Only Ham - Shutdown Ham - Forever >> Ham - Bring it Back Ham - Searching For The Feeling
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by arpz: Here's a little teaser for all the paupers on the forum ;) Here's a quite frankly mean and nasty tease of some of the stuff featured on the new exclusive DJ Ham album for those of you wondering whether he's still got it :) Ham & Robbie Long - Ready Ham - Bounce 2 Dis Beat Ham - Yeah Yeah Yeah Ham - Let's Get This Thing Started Ham - One and Only Ham - Shutdown Ham - Forever >> Ham - Bring it Back Ham - Searching For The Feeling Bet you had fun mixing that today! reposted on my FB!
arpz	Sound. Yeah to be honest I thought I'd just get something out super quick and cash in on the extra plays/follows for being first
Elipton	Ham - Let's Get This Thing Started That sounds ****ing incredible!
Samination	this might be me streaming the album to work (its a private server so no one can connect to it) at 56kb, but that kick sounds crappy if you ask me. I do like how unprocessed it sounded back in the 90's but with a "clean" sound and added dirt just to make it sound different? annoys my ears tbh. Makes the speaker sounds damaged. And no, it's not my speakers at work, I felt the same when I listened to arp'z sample before I left for work at home.
Elliott	My highlight was getting unmixed One & Only. Take that as you will. I certainly didn't expect to hear tracks like "Let's Get This Started". Sounds like any generic modern hardcore tune to me. When you're asking people to blind buy something so expensive, you generally have to deliver what they're expecting. Clearly, based on some of the comments on here, he did that. Not for me though. I got to "Shutdown", heard the breakdown and thought "this is it: the late '00s Blatant Beats is coming out" and then nahhh. Pricktease. Still a decent track but I was hoping for more than decent.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Samination: this might be me streaming the album to work (its a private server so no one can connect to it) at 56kb, but that kick sounds crappy if you ask me. I do like how unprocessed it sounded back in the 90's but with a "clean" sound and added dirt just to make it sound different? annoys my ears tbh. Makes the speaker sounds damaged. And no, it's not my speakers at work, I felt the same when I listened to arp'z sample before I left for work at home. I agree. The kick sounds awful on a few tracks. Literally spitting white noise all over the drop on Bounce 2 Dis Beat.
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by Elliott:I certainly didn't expect to hear tracks like "Let's Get This Started". Sounds like any generic modern hardcore tune to me. Just wanted to mention with regards to this tune that it's probably about as true to Ham's classic sound as I've heard on the album previews. Ham was all about producing tracks for the dancefloor like Working Up A Sweat, Count Of Three and Detonate This Sound. Let's Get This Started is very true to that style. It's not your typical Hardcore track at all. That's my opinion, but I feel it's an important distinction.
trippnface	quote: Originally posted by arpz: Here's a little teaser for all the paupers on the forum ;) Here's a quite frankly mean and nasty tease of some of the stuff featured on the new exclusive DJ Ham album for those of you wondering whether he's still got it :) Ham & Robbie Long - Ready Ham - Bounce 2 Dis Beat Ham - Yeah Yeah Yeah Ham - Let's Get This Thing Started Ham - One and Only Ham - Shutdown Ham - Forever >> Ham - Bring it Back Ham - Searching For The Feeling aha ! ; think i found you on fb lol.
djDMS	Been listening to it all day. It's really nice!
skarr	quote: Originally posted by arpz: Here's a little teaser for all the paupers on the forum ;) Here's a quite frankly mean and nasty tease of some of the stuff featured on the new exclusive DJ Ham album for those of you wondering whether he's still got it :) Ham & Robbie Long - Ready Ham - Bounce 2 Dis Beat Ham - Yeah Yeah Yeah Ham - Let's Get This Thing Started Ham - One and Only Ham - Shutdown Ham - Forever >> Ham - Bring it Back Ham - Searching For The Feeling Jesus ****in Christ, on hearing that I'm glad I spent that last 1 er I had knocking around on a bag of coke and some rum. Nothing even mildly amazing here, obviously everyone that's brought it is going to say it's mind blowing for obvious reasons.
skarr	All he's done is taken a generic vocal sample, put it over a generic track , then named the track whatever the vocal sample is.
Vladel	quote: Originally posted by skarr: quote: Originally posted by arpz: Here's a little teaser for all the paupers on the forum ;) Here's a quite frankly mean and nasty tease of some of the stuff featured on the new exclusive DJ Ham album for those of you wondering whether he's still got it :) Ham & Robbie Long - Ready Ham - Bounce 2 Dis Beat Ham - Yeah Yeah Yeah Ham - Let's Get This Thing Started Ham - One and Only Ham - Shutdown Ham - Forever >> Ham - Bring it Back Ham - Searching For The Feeling Jesus **in Christ, on hearing that I'm glad I spent that last 1 er I had knocking around on a bag of coke and some rum. Nothing even mildly amazing here, obviously everyone that's brought it is going to say it's mind blowing for obvious reasons. I'm glad someone has uploaded something like this because it does give peace of mind to people who didn't want to miss out on something great and were not willing to throw money at basically a blind promise. No doubt thumpa will be on saying anyone who doesn't like it are haters (his Facebook has been nausiating) He basically said a big fk you to anyone not involved and I like thumpa but he can be a real dick sometimes. I'm not saying the tracks are terrible (good mix btw arpz), one and only seems interesting but not worth ?100. The album will be shared, maybe not on the net but someone will pass on something to a close mate etc and I honestly don't think I'd pay ?15 now I know how some of it sounds. I will be honest, I wanted it to be terrible so no one contemplates this horrid model again as it can only be bad for the scene but it's not bad, it's average from what I've heard on that mix and average doesn't cut ?100. I don't think any ten songs is worth ?100.
skarr	Any tracks on the album that you'll go back to in 8 years time and think 'wow!! I remember how this track changed my life ' or even any track you'll ever listen to again in 8 years time? Ham made this album to get back from the hardcore scene what he feels like he is owed , and he has done exactly that, not that I personally think he's owed anything, but he clearly thinks he is, these tunes are SHIT.
arpz	It's fortunate that neither of you are the target audience then really innit?
iggyk23	They are not shit, they are uk hardcore with some touches of old school and breakbeat. Shit has lower bpm and out of sync farting sounds. On the topic of extremely exclusive music, I was thinking for a while, if there are any interested parties maybe we could collect some money and ransom from Hixxy those two bonkers mixes of toytown he never released. This has been bugging me for a while, why make music and then not sell it to the people, all they can do is drool over the songs while listening to bonkers mix, thats one a bit more extreme example of exclusivity that personally does not make much sense to me.
The drunken scotsman	Currently on holiday but managed to find a way to download the zip file on to my iPad. Had a listen today, love it. The collab with Brisk is awesome. 'Yeah yeah yeah' as well. Not sure what people were expecting tbh, stays true to his sound.
skarr	quote: Originally posted by arpz: It's fortunate that neither of you are the target audience then really innit? By that I'm assuming you mean idiots ?
skarr	quote: Originally posted by iggyk23: They are not shit, they are uk hardcore with some touches of old school and breakbeat. Oh right, sorry.
robertybob	I'm glad I didn't buy into this, it's not the Ham sound I like, but I'm glad those that forked out the ?100 enjoy it. However, if this sets a trend of other artists doing the same then I'll lose all faith in hardcore forever.
Elipton	Rather a lot of opinions for such short snippets of music. I can't really understand how you can make an informed opinion about a song that plays for 30 seconds in a mixed montage of clips.
Vladel	quote: Originally posted by robertybob: I'm glad I didn't buy into this, it's not the Ham sound I like, but I'm glad those that forked out the ?100 enjoy it. However, if this sets a trend of other artists doing the same then I'll lose all faith in hardcore forever. Let's face it, no one will admit they bought something they hated in this case.
djDMS	I WAS happy with my 25 quid slice of Ham, until you two turned up with your inevitable (and predictable) words of wisdom. Stupidly thought that my decision, my purchase, and my enjoyment was totally my choice. Thank god the troll twins arrived to put me right.
arpz	The problem is, you're not going to find people saying they don't like it because the people that bought it had a good idea what they'd be getting and what they got is what they expected. If he'd done something like made loads of EDM or just rebranded some Hamilton tracks then for sure you'd get people kicking off.
robertybob	quote: Originally posted by arpz: the people that bought it had a good idea what they'd be getting and what they got is what they expected. Ham has more than one sound though? I didn't think the clips in that mix sounded anything like his stuff from the Bonkers 17 CD or HU 2010 (the style of his that I liked).
Samination	To be honest the rest of the track and tracks doesnt sound much different from each other. Im happy i only forked 25 quid for it. Scott browns Forever Yours was worth buying 3 copies of the vinyl and a digital version for more
Elipton	Got to remember, chaps, that Ham is widely identified as one of the pioneers of Hardcore. His sound had always been at the front of Hardcore development and I think a different sound to his past is to be respected. If you ask me, there's a decent range in those clips, from breakbeat Hardcore to upfront modern tunes. If you're expecting Ham to come back and give you a 2007 sound, you've got to smell the coffee and realise that 2007 Hardcore will exist only in 2007. To revisit it with a release is very partisan, and won't be widely popular. I think these 10 tracks have covered a decent range of the spectrum and I can see why people will be pleased with them. On the flipside, if you're a legacy fan of Ham, you may be disappointed. Music from 8 years ago will always have nostalgic appeal, so to say that these tracks lack the impact of the classics is very ridiculous. I personally hope that the selling format that Ham's employed doesn't trend, and this makes me pessimistic of the music. I think people who maintain a principle against this format are having a tough time being mutual on the music. It's not a case of whether it's worth ?100 (because to some, it is), but rather whether it's good music regardless.
arpz	I reckon if it was a ten quid album everyone would be saying it's great and varied and wonderful that he's come back. Was I hoping for a Brisk & Ham track that sounded just like Angel Eyes? Yes. I didn't get that but I'm happy with what I did get. Would I do it again if he posted another one tomorrow? yeah.
Vladel	They are won't have the same impact as the great majority of people will never own let alone hear them.
Samination	Fuk Ham, he's had his run. I rather see Stargazer (not cubehard) or frantic do a 100 quid bidding
Mickey Init	quote: Originally posted by Vladel: I wanted it to be terrible What's happened to the world? People have become so narrow-minded and self-absorbed. Although, it does seem like sour grapes to me 🍇
Vladel	quote: Originally posted by Mickey Init: quote: Originally posted by Vladel: I wanted it to be terrible i What's happened to the world? People have become so narrow-minded and self-absorbed. Although, it does seem like sour grapes to me 🍇 I could afford it no problem but I am fundamentally against the model of making a small scene pay through the nose on a blind promise and I don't want the model to spread. Furthermore I am obviously going to want it to be terrible because if I have chosen to miss out on something that is impossible to be a part of once complete, it's just human nature to hope you haven't missed out on anything good. The worse it is, the better the chance it may never happen again. If you have payed for this, you have effectively contributed to the eventual death of the scene should this model spread.
skarr	It's a ****in SHIT album and anyone that says any different is just lying to themselves and is just trying to justify spending ?100 on a bunch of generic vocal samples over a bunch of generic tracks and then that track being called whatever the vocal sample is.
skarr	You could tell by the names of the tracks it was going to be shit.
skarr	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: Got to remember, chaps, that Ham is widely identified as one of the pioneers of Hardcore. His sound had always been at the front of Hardcore development and I think a different sound to his past is to be respected. Shut the **** up you absolute prick.
skarr	You could tell by the names of the tracks exactly what was gonna happen in each track.
skarr	'Bounce 2 dis beat ' 'yeah yeah yeah ' 'let's get this thing started ' , I mean come on people, have a word with yourselves seriously.
Cyrax	quote: Originally posted by skarr: 'Bounce 2 dis beat ' 'yeah yeah yeah ' 'let's get this thing started ' , I mean come on people, have a word with yourselves seriously. Just take it easy, Champ, Why don't you stop talking for a while? Maybe sit the next couple of plays out.
The drunken scotsman	quote: Originally posted by skarr: It's a **in SHIT album and anyone that says any different is just lying to themselves and is just trying to justify spending ?100 on a bunch of generic vocal samples over a bunch of generic tracks and then that track being called whatever the vocal sample is. This also works: It's a **ing GREAT album and anyone that says any different is just jealous they didn't sign up and is just trying to justify not spending ?25 on a bunch of class tracks, which are miles better than any other shite being produced in hardcore at the moment. Isn't it funny how the most boring negative arseholes on this forum are the ones that are so annoyed by it.
ViolonC	The Ham Album is probably a very good product because a) you payed 100 squid for just a few tracks. Would be a real shame if you don't like them, wouldn't it? As an old Ham fan you are though likely to appreciate the style what makes it easier. b) you didn't pay 100 squid and now you aren't part of the 'cool kids club'. As you can't have it anyway what#s the point in liking it and if you don't like it why even have it? But there will be some mixes, right? In case you actually do like it? I had a listen to arpz mix and wasn't blown away (maybe because of reason b) ) but it wasn't bad either. It is a little sad that the album won't be much of relevance unless key artists get inspired by the music, that though sounds dated (like Hixxys first tracks when he picked up producing again last year). But time will tell. At the end a lot of people that picked the album up will be satisfied, certainly also because of reason a). :D
Thumpa	I liked it, I've liked his music for over 21 years so always enjoy it. I didn't think it was generic either, and I hate generic hardcore music.
Samination	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: Got to remember, chaps, that Ham is widely identified as one of the pioneers of Hardcore. His sound had always been at the front of Hardcore development and I think a different sound to his past is to be respected. If you ask me, there's a decent range in those clips, from breakbeat Hardcore to upfront modern tunes. This statement kinda reminds me of when DNA got loads of slack (not Dean). Can someone please link me something that DNA supposedly pioneered and was in the forefront off, and got crap for? And as much as I dislike to say it, none of them (Ham and DNA) pioneered much, unless pioneering means going the wrong way the Scene wants and grows. The Scene dropped jungle for Happy Hardcore. The Scene dropped Happy Hardcore for Upfront/UK Hardcore. And as much as I hate to agree on this, but the Scene dropped UK Hardcore for Electro/drumstep-minimalistic-drops and then for Gammer-happy-revival. The Scene grows (outside the UK) and the infighting grows, since no one is accepting that Twatstorm and Gummer are winning. Oh god, I'm sounding like Warnman now, and I've barely been into the music scene as long as most others...
skarr	quote: Originally posted by Thumpa: I liked it, I've liked his music for over 21 years so always enjoy it. I didn't think it was generic either, and I hate generic hardcore music. Oh right well if you've said it's not generic then it's not generic.
skarr	He's done exactly what I said he would, knock up 10 tracks in about a week, bang a shitty vocal sample over the top of most of em, take months to bring them out and act like it's a work of art.
arpz	He hasn't acted like anything at all, he's said he's pleased with how it's come out and that he hopes everyone likes it. I know you're trying to be deliberately inflammatory, it's so boring though, you should go outside or something
Bring Me Round To Love	I saved my 100 pound and brought this instead: https://dancewiththedead.bandcamp.com/album/b-sides-volume-1 Oh and a Patagonia jacket.
Ham	Jeez Skarr, you seem to have a huge problem with this idea dont you? Obviously this is not for you and thats cool, but I think its very unfair for you to accuse the people who supported this of lying to themselves or being deluded. Im pretty sure if people thought the album was as bad as you say, the supporters would have been the first to let me know. That has not been the case, completely opposite in fact. Ill also add, listening to the full album, full length tracks at the right tempo for over an hour is quite a different experience from checking out a 15 minute sync mode preview mix. What you are effectively saying is that everyone who got involved is stupid and has no idea about the music they like. At the end of the day music is totally subjective, there are no right or wrong answers, its all down to personal taste. The bottom line is nobody was forced to support this project and if there was no demand it would never have happened in the first place. Also, when you factor in the stems, being able to remix the tracks yourself or even just to break down aspects as to how the tunes were produced, this idea exhibits better value than first impressions may show. I used to pay 100 for sample CDs back in the early 90s (more like 200 today with inflation) sometimes for only one or two samples. Why? Because I wanted them. If, back then, I could have got hold of stems from producers I liked, Id have bitten their hands off? in fact, theres still one or two producers I would still do this with today given the opportunity. Producing 10 tracks in a week? Really? Thats one of the funniest things Ive read in a long time. Cant wait to hear your tracks, especially if you are so prolific! If you ever get the chance, have a listen to my stems... you will hear the level of detail, and the time spent too. You have also been particularly vocal about the track titles. You must have an amazing gift to be able to be so confident in a tracks potential purely based on its name. In fact, perhaps a job in A&R would be perfect for you as you wouldnt even need to listen to the tracks in order to make a decision, saving lots of time as you fill the charts with all your signings, based purely on your track title intuition. If another project like this ever happens again, and yes, there already is demand, its not something I can entertain just yet as I need a break from the album writing process and I also have several other important (and very exciting) things on the go moving forward... Ill be sure to call one of the tracks Skarr. Because with a track title like that, you just know its going to be the absolute bollocks! Right? Ham
skarr	quote: Originally posted by Ham: Jeez Skarr, you seem to have a huge problem with this idea dont you? Obviously this is not for you and thats cool, but I think its very unfair for you to accuse the people who supported this of lying to themselves or being deluded. Im pretty sure if people thought the album was as bad as you say, the supporters would have been the first to let me know. That has not been the case, completely opposite in fact. Ill also add, listening to the full album, full length tracks at the right tempo for over an hour is quite a different experience from checking out a 15 minute sync mode preview mix. What you are effectively saying is that everyone who got involved is stupid and has no idea about the music they like. At the end of the day music is totally subjective, there are no right or wrong answers, its all down to personal taste. The bottom line is nobody was forced to support this project and if there was no demand it would never have happened in the first place. Also, when you factor in the stems, being able to remix the tracks yourself or even just to break down aspects as to how the tunes were produced, this idea exhibits better value than first impressions may show. I used to pay 100 for sample CDs back in the early 90s (more like 200 today with inflation) sometimes for only one or two samples. Why? Because I wanted them. If, back then, I could have got hold of stems from producers I liked, Id have bitten their hands off? in fact, theres still one or two producers I would still do this with today given the opportunity. Producing 10 tracks in a week? Really? Thats one of the funniest things Ive read in a long time. Cant wait to hear your tracks, especially if you are so prolific! If you ever get the chance, have a listen to my stems... you will hear the level of detail, and the time spent too. You have also been particularly vocal about the track titles. You must have an amazing gift to be able to be so confident in a tracks potential purely based on its name. In fact, perhaps a job in A&R would be perfect for you as you wouldnt even need to listen to the tracks in order to make a decision, saving lots of time as you fill the charts with all your signings, based purely on your track title intuition. If another project like this ever happens again, and yes, there already is demand, its not something I can entertain just yet as I need a break from the album writing process and I also have several other important (and very exciting) things on the go moving forward... Ill be sure to call one of the tracks Skarr. Because with a track title like that, you just know its going to be the absolute bollocks! Right? Ham Mate all you have done is taken a shit vocal sample, banged it over a standard ham sounding tune and then called it whatever the vocal sample is, i wonder what your 'skarr' track will sound like.....
skarr	I was right about the track titles and the way the tracks sounded though ?
latininxtc	Holy shit I don't know what has me more shook, what Ham said or that he responded! There's always been an inside joke among people who know him being a quiet and reserved person. Glad to see you on here Ham, although wish it were under better circumstances. If you take on another hardcore album project, would you be willing to do it with the Hardcore Underground label??? Also what Skarr also fails to remember is not everyone paid 100 quid for it. You even said people could pool in a group to come up with the total of that but the CD album could only go to 1 person. But don't bother yourself with Skarr he's purposely being a cunt because he likes to talk shit about anything, or anyone, that's popular among the rest of the forum members. It's his thing he does it mostly for attention. quote: Originally posted by Ham: Ill also add, listening to the full album, full length tracks at the right tempo for over an hour is quite a different experience from checking out a 15 minute sync mode preview mix. Haha shade! I actually like that preview mix, although it is mostly just for the tracks themselves
skarr	Look at your ****in profile picture for God's sake, it should be ?10,000, Not 100, the lucky 100 that spent 100 ! Oh how lucky they are !!!!
skarr	You banged out 10 very , very , average, at best tunes, and made 10 grand, fair play to you for that mate.
Samination	skarr: Bloody hell, should get a star, you manage to get an well known producer to register to the forum! Latin: Dont be so mean to skarr. Hatrixx defended the guy after all, so he must've been good. Or a bad judgement, considering atleast Ham has read the thread. Ham: I feel like I should say I'm sorry. I feel like I am one of the guys who spews some shit on this project (which I did already before it bore any fruition). I know I am not your target demographic (Im not a particular fan of Oldskool/British Hardcore from before 1996), but I am a fan of music, and I really, REALLY hate projects like this, that might've locked good music away from fans. Some guys gonna drive a car over me because they think it devalues the music. But god darnit, didn't you start making music because you liked it and you wanted people to hear it?
djDMS	quote: Originally posted by skarr: i wonder what your 'skarr' track will sound like..... If the track titles are as obvious and predictable as you claim, it'll sound like a C**t
Cyrax	Ham your album is awesome, and if the project ever comes up again I'll jump in feet first, Skarr is just a standard troll you can spot him a mile off, I know this because I troll Facebook constantly myself!
djDMS	quote: Originally posted by Cyrax: Ham your album is awesome, and if the project ever comes up again I'll jump in feet first, Skarr is just a standard troll you can spot him a mile off, I know this because I troll Facebook constantly myself! But you're occasionally slightly funny
Vladel	quote: Originally posted by Ham: Jeez Skarr, you seem to have a huge problem with this idea dont you? Obviously this is not for you and thats cool, but I think its very unfair for you to accuse the people who supported this of lying to themselves or being deluded. Im pretty sure if people thought the album was as bad as you say, the supporters would have been the first to let me know. That has not been the case, completely opposite in fact. Ill also add, listening to the full album, full length tracks at the right tempo for over an hour is quite a different experience from checking out a 15 minute sync mode preview mix. What you are effectively saying is that everyone who got involved is stupid and has no idea about the music they like. At the end of the day music is totally subjective, there are no right or wrong answers, its all down to personal taste. The bottom line is nobody was forced to support this project and if there was no demand it would never have happened in the first place. Also, when you factor in the stems, being able to remix the tracks yourself or even just to break down aspects as to how the tunes were produced, this idea exhibits better value than first impressions may show. I used to pay 100 for sample CDs back in the early 90s (more like 200 today with inflation) sometimes for only one or two samples. Why? Because I wanted them. If, back then, I could have got hold of stems from producers I liked, Id have bitten their hands off? in fact, theres still one or two producers I would still do this with today given the opportunity. Producing 10 tracks in a week? Really? Thats one of the funniest things Ive read in a long time. Cant wait to hear your tracks, especially if you are so prolific! If you ever get the chance, have a listen to my stems... you will hear the level of detail, and the time spent too. You have also been particularly vocal about the track titles. You must have an amazing gift to be able to be so confident in a tracks potential purely based on its name. In fact, perhaps a job in A&R would be perfect for you as you wouldnt even need to listen to the tracks in order to make a decision, saving lots of time as you fill the charts with all your signings, based purely on your track title intuition. If another project like this ever happens again, and yes, there already is demand, its not something I can entertain just yet as I need a break from the album writing process and I also have several other important (and very exciting) things on the go moving forward... Ill be sure to call one of the tracks Skarr. Because with a track title like that, you just know its going to be the absolute bollocks! Right? Ham My issue is the model itself. If you wanted to do something for the scene, you could have done it the conventional way. This way it just comes off mercenary which is what I think gets a lot of people's backs up.
Samination	quote: Originally posted by Vladel: My issue is the model itself. If you wanted to do something for the scene, you could have done it the conventional way. This way it just comes off mercenary which is what I think gets a lot of people's backs up. If only we could take down the top hierarchy the conventional way...
Elipton	Can't believe people still take opinions made on this forum seriously tbh I'll admit, I'm curious for skarr to post us a track that's well titled and not generic in his view.
Samination	quote: Originally posted by Elipton: Can't believe people still take opinions made on this forum seriously tbh well ask Gammer, he takes so serious that he blocked most of us from Twitter before we even tweeted anything about him
DjZelous	the album is now up on discogs https://www.discogs.com/DJ-Ham-100/release/10281304 lets hope for pirates! ever since ive got a job ive been buying all music, but i think ill make an exeption for this
Vladel	Well I don't imagine there is a single track that compares to "the spark" and that cost me 99 pence
Samination	quote: Originally posted by DjZelous: the album is now up on discogs https://www.discogs.com/DJ-Ham-100/release/10281304 lets hope for pirates! ever since ive got a job ive been buying all music, but i think ill make an exeption for this if it was a vinyl, rleased 10 years ago and never to be re-released, I might've obligated.
arpz	The best bit is about taking a vocal and "banging it over a standard ham sounding tune", aren't those ham sounding tunes EXACTLY what you'd be expecting? The mind boggles.
skarr	quote: Originally posted by arpz: The best bit is about taking a vocal and "banging it over a standard ham sounding tune", aren't those ham sounding tunes EXACTLY what you'd be expecting? The mind boggles. no, you'd be expecting life changing, ground breaking nu skool UK hardcore for ?100, what you got were 10, and I'm being kind here, at the VERY best average hardcore tracks.
latininxtc	quote: Originally posted by DjZelous: lets hope for pirates! ever since ive got a job ive been buying all music, but i think ill make an exeption for this What a cunt.
skarr	surely if you had the deep burning desire within yourself to make an album youd just make the album ? and not demand 10 grand up front ?
skarr	I've heard EVERY track on the album, and while the music may be well produced, there are as many deep thoughts and feelings involved with the actual music , as there are with the names of the tracks, dj ham you have made me feel physically sick. You must of sat there for weeks on end struggling over what to call a really deep , meaningful pieceofmusic, like 'yeah yeah yeah' or 'bounce to dis beat'
Elipton	quote: Originally posted by skarr: I've heard EVERY track on the album, and while the music may be well produced, there are as many deep thoughts and feelings involved with the actual music , as there are with the names of the tracks, dj ham you have made me feel physically sick. You must of sat there for weeks on end struggling over what to call a really deep , meaningful pieceofmusic, like 'yeah yeah yeah' or 'bounce to dis beat' People don't want to start sobbing into a box of Kleenix on the dancefloor, you dunce. This is Hardcore, kiddo. It's party music. Ham has always been about driving dancefloor-rocking music. If you wanted music charged with feeling, you should have bought my At Peace album when it was sold
arpz	At this point I don't think it's even worth engaging with him about this album - even the most vehement haters of this project must be thinking he's being a cock about it lol
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by Vladel: Well I don't imagine there is a single track that compares to "the spark" and that cost me 99 pence You were right. The Spark will probably turn out to be the tune of 2017 depressingly.
Elliott	quote: Originally posted by ViolonC: The Ham Album is probably a very good product because a) you payed 100 squid for just a few tracks. Would be a real shame if you don't like them, wouldn't it? As an old Ham fan you are though likely to appreciate the style what makes it easier. b) you didn't pay 100 squid and now you aren't part of the 'cool kids club'. As you can't have it anyway what#s the point in liking it and if you don't like it why even have it? But there will be some mixes, right? In case you actually do like it? I had a listen to arpz mix and wasn't blown away (maybe because of reason b) ) but it wasn't bad either. It is a little sad that the album won't be much of relevance unless key artists get inspired by the music, that though sounds dated (like Hixxys first tracks when he picked up producing again last year). But time will tell. At the end a lot of people that picked the album up will be satisfied, certainly also because of reason a). :D It wasn't dated enough for my liking. Good point about people on both sides having a large stake in the issue though. People who paid for it are more likely to look favourably on the album after such a hefty outlay regardless of their objective opinion of the tracks. People on the outside will, if all goes to plan, never have access to the full length tracks so they have plenty of reason to want to dismiss the album regardless of their objective opinion of the tracks. A lot of cognitive bias is involved from all directions. I think I'm one of the only people who got in on the action and publicly expressed disappointment at the end result. That probably makes the project a success overall.
Vladel	quote: Originally posted by DjZelous: the album is now up on discogs https://www.discogs.com/DJ-Ham-100/release/10281304 lets hope for pirates! ever since ive got a job ive been buying all music, but i think ill make an exeption for this The issue with piracy I think centres on lost revenues to an artist. In this case where there's a limited run with no possibility of re-release, there is no loss of earnings to Ham certainly as the model doesn't allow for any more money to be made. It's not possible to obtain the product legally so what happens, happens. From what I have heard, I wouldn't go to the trouble looking for it.
HARRIBO	quote: Originally posted by djDMS: Been listening to it all day. It's really nice! from the 15 mini mix sounds good to me although I wouldn't and didn't pay ?100 for it

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