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Revs
Advanced Member
Austria
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 Posted - 2009/08/30 : 18:02:39
Why did it completely change after some years then ? It was at 120 BPM, and some years later it was suddenly at 180 BPM, piano riffs, happy vocals, etc etc. It's a.. brutal change, for me. Of course it's the evolution but that was.. wow! Usually this takes long time.. I mean, if you show someone who has never listened to Hardcore a track from the 80s and then one from today, do you think he will call it the same genre ? I don't think so. Whereas if you show him a track from the 90s and one from today, he probably will.
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95_was_the_time
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 18:46:00
80s hardcore? i thought hardcore started around 1991. uk was doing their Hardcore and belgium was doing their Hardcore.
I find it interested what the hell happened between house and hardcore. I think it was called 'bleeps & bass & breaks' or something.
? no idea really I was only 5 at the time. But hardcore from 1993 sounds alot different from 1991 so yeah it changed really quick. can't really comment on the bpm... just like a waltzer ride people just wanna go faster and faster than the last ride.
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snerkler
Senior Member
United Kingdom
461 posts
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 19:44:24
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Why did it completely change after some years then ? It was at 120 BPM, and some years later it was suddenly at 180 BPM, piano riffs, happy vocals, etc etc. It's a.. brutal change, for me. Of course it's the evolution but that was.. wow! Usually this takes long time.. I mean, if you show someone who has never listened to Hardcore a track from the 80s and then one from today, do you think he will call it the same genre ? I don't think so. Whereas if you show him a track from the 90s and one from today, he probably will.
It didn't suddenly jump from 120-180bpm (To be honest only a small percentage of Happy Hardcore tracks were at 180bpm, it was more 170-175bpm) , it was a gradual progression. I consider 8 years quite a long period of time (that's how long it took to go from 120-180bpm)
At the time of the change it didn't seem to happen that quickly either. You went from tracks at 120 ish bpm (Bowa, LFO, dominator etc in the early 90's), Stuff on XL ranging from 120-150+ bpm, Baby D at 135bpm ish, Praga Khan, Liquid Crystal, Urban Shakedown at 145-155bpm ish. Also, are you going to tell me that none of these tracks had nice vocals and piano riffs????
Some of the first Happy Hardcore tracks were only 145-150BPM (Early Kniteforce, Ramos and Supreme Sunshine, Crowd control and Gotta believe). I don't see how that's a rapid jump from 120-180bpm. It wasn't till the height of Force and Styles that Happy Hardcore reached the dizzy heights of nearly 180bpm (I'm talking Happy Hardcore here not gabba or techno).
I was clubbing and raving since the early 90's and I can assure you the music didn't suddenly change overnight. It wasn't like one week we were all dancing to Hardcore at 120bpm, then the next week we were bouncing around at 170-175bpm.
For me, early hardcore is the best (although Happy Hardcore from it's origin to about 1998 is a close second). The music had more rhythm and complexity, making it more interesting to listen to. Also, the breakbeat and speed of the music allowed you to be much more expressive rather than just bouncing around everywhere (not that there's anything wrong with that by the way).
I hear of more and more people wanting oldskool hardcore these days, so can I ask why that is if you're saying it wasn't popular? Prodigy have gone back to the old sound with Invaders Must Die, and guess what, Altern 8 have just re-released Full On Mask Hysteria. Sounds like the oldskool sound is regenerating, not bad for music that nobody likes eh? (And yes I'm fully aware that this was early 90's, not late 80's, but for your arguement to upstand you must also be referring to early 90's as well as late 80's)
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Edited by - snerkler on 2009/08/30 19:58:54 |
snerkler
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 19:54:52
quote:
Originally posted by 95_was_the_time:
80s hardcore? i thought hardcore started around 1991. uk was doing their Hardcore and belgium was doing their Hardcore.
To be honest this is up for debate anyway. It's difficult to know exactly when Hardcore was first introduced, and which was the first ever hardcore track. For most folk, Hardcore as we came to know it was the early 90's, but technically I guess it was before this. A lot of people think Hardcore came from House music anyway.
The same can be said for when Happy Hardcore first started, a lot of people say SMD was the start of happy hardcore, whereas at the time a lot of magazines etc said that Gotta Believe/Sunshine was the start of Happy Hardcore.
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Samination
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Sweden
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 20:33:59
I like it how offtopic this has gotten (yet it still is on topic, 120bpm hardcore is rare :P)
I wouldnt want Hardcore to get that slow again (not that I ever heard it). I got into Hardcore because it's quick and unlike anything else more popular
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raindancerob
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 21:19:36
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Oops I ment 80s. Sorry, the 8 is just beside the 9 …
And nobody talks about House music. We talk about HARDCORE from the EIGHTIES. Get it ? Okay if so, tell me your top 100 Hardcore tunes from before 1990 !  You surely have enough of them since it's been so popular :)
again you clearly dont know what ya on about its house music. also i dont need to justify myself to you.
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raindancerob
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 21:21:00
quote:
Originally posted by snerkler:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
We're not talking about the 90s, but about 1988, just for your info (maybe you could read ?). And sorry but I don't see many people listening to Hardcore from the 90s. I bet you don't even like the 120 BPM ;-)
And if everyone would have liked it, it wouldn't have changed.. take a track from 1988 and take one from 1992, you'll see the difference. It has completely changed... but WHY !?!??!?!? I thought everyone loved it Oo
Ok I am starting to get the impression you don't know what you're talking about. The progression and change within music is nothing to do with how popular it is, it is purely evolution. People are constantly wanting to push the boundaries and introduce new sounds. Without change music would get stale. And that goes across the board with music, whether it be dance music, rock music or jazz. Next you'll be saying that The Beatles weren't popular because their style of music changed many times since the 60's :-/
In 10 years time will you be saying that no-one likes hardcore from 2008-9 because the style has completely changed?
And I like hardcore from the 80's and 90's, and have many vinyl at around 120bpm. I would love it if hardcore went back to 120-135 bpm :-)
exactly & he clearly cant get it into his head as iv already said most of what you have.
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raindancerob
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 21:25:59
quote:
Originally posted by snerkler:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Why did it completely change after some years then ? It was at 120 BPM, and some years later it was suddenly at 180 BPM, piano riffs, happy vocals, etc etc. It's a.. brutal change, for me. Of course it's the evolution but that was.. wow! Usually this takes long time.. I mean, if you show someone who has never listened to Hardcore a track from the 80s and then one from today, do you think he will call it the same genre ? I don't think so. Whereas if you show him a track from the 90s and one from today, he probably will.
It didn't suddenly jump from 120-180bpm (To be honest only a small percentage of Happy Hardcore tracks were at 180bpm, it was more 170-175bpm) , it was a gradual progression. I consider 8 years quite a long period of time (that's how long it took to go from 120-180bpm)
At the time of the change it didn't seem to happen that quickly either. You went from tracks at 120 ish bpm (Bowa, LFO, dominator etc in the early 90's), Stuff on XL ranging from 120-150+ bpm, Baby D at 135bpm ish, Praga Khan, Liquid Crystal, Urban Shakedown at 145-155bpm ish. Also, are you going to tell me that none of these tracks had nice vocals and piano riffs????
Some of the first Happy Hardcore tracks were only 145-150BPM (Early Kniteforce, Ramos and Supreme Sunshine, Crowd control and Gotta believe). I don't see how that's a rapid jump from 120-180bpm. It wasn't till the height of Force and Styles that Happy Hardcore reached the dizzy heights of nearly 180bpm (I'm talking Happy Hardcore here not gabba or techno).
I was clubbing and raving since the early 90's and I can assure you the music didn't suddenly change overnight. It wasn't like one week we were all dancing to Hardcore at 120bpm, then the next week we were bouncing around at 170-175bpm.
For me, early hardcore is the best (although Happy Hardcore from it's origin to about 1998 is a close second). The music had more rhythm and complexity, making it more interesting to listen to. Also, the breakbeat and speed of the music allowed you to be much more expressive rather than just bouncing around everywhere (not that there's anything wrong with that by the way).
I hear of more and more people wanting oldskool hardcore these days, so can I ask why that is if you're saying it wasn't popular? Prodigy have gone back to the old sound with Invaders Must Die, and guess what, Altern 8 have just re-released Full On Mask Hysteria. Sounds like the oldskool sound is regenerating, not bad for music that nobody likes eh? (And yes I'm fully aware that this was early 90's, not late 80's, but for your arguement to upstand you must also be referring to early 90's as well as late 80's)
the rave breaks scene is a testament that old skool is still popular & you only have to look at events like Raindance to see that it still is. at Raindance the old skool & jenkins lane (classic house) arches are always rammed, so if what he says is correct then events like Raindance would stop putting on events.
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raindancerob
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 21:27:59
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:and unlike anything else more popular
i really dont know what to say about that comment as its all been explained already.
oh & btw just cuz a tune is old/120 BPM does not make it rare.
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Edited by - raindancerob on 2009/08/30 21:29:04 |
Samination
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Sweden
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 21:31:22
quote:
Originally posted by raindancerob:
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:and unlike anything else more popular
i really dont know what to say about that comment as its all been explained already.
ehm, you need to read the complete post rather than just quoting a part of it.
I wasnt on about how it changed, I just said I didnt want it to revert back to that slow speeds, as it's alot quicker than most pop, trance, house and rock music out there (well except metal maybe), and that's the reason I liked it.
quote:
Originally posted by raindancerob:
oh & btw just cuz a tune is old/120 BPM does not make it rare.
Well the records from that time should be :P
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Edited by - Samination on 2009/08/30 21:33:23 |
raindancerob
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 21:37:38
i did mate however i thought that you meant that you got into it cuz of its speed & cuz its popular ? anyways as with any type of music for it to be rare it depends on various things eg was it a limited pressing of 500 copies for example, however sometimes even that doesnt make it rare as you may be able to find quite a few copies for sale at any one time.
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Edited by - raindancerob on 2009/08/30 21:38:10 |
snerkler
Senior Member
United Kingdom
461 posts
Joined: Aug, 2008
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 21:57:04
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
quote:
Originally posted by raindancerob:
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:and unlike anything else more popular
ehm, you need to read the complete post rather than just quoting a part of it.
I wasnt on about how it changed, I just said I didnt want it to revert back to that slow speeds, as it's alot quicker than most pop, trance, house and rock music out there (well except metal maybe), and that's the reason I liked it.
quote:
Originally posted by raindancerob:
Each to their own to the speed. I'm not saying I don't like the fast hardcore becasue I do, I love it, I just prefer oldskool.
But I would disagree with your comment how you imply that if hardcore went back to 120bpm it would be the same as any other music. Even when hardcore was slower it was still different from anything else, and it still is. It's the style, not the tempo that differentiates it. People can obviously differentiate it, otherwise older hardcore, trance, house etc etc would all be classed as one style if it was down to tempo alone.
And I personally think that oldskool hardcore and happy hardcore up to 1998 ish was/is far more different than any other music. I think that hardcore now is much more similar to other forms of dance music than it's ever been. I would even go as far to call some of it fast trance rather than hardcore, becasue all that differentiates it is the tempo rather than the style.
But that's just my opinion, and hey we're all entitled to our own view. But just consider mine fully before you dismiss it too quickly
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Revs
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Austria
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 22:20:54
quote:
Originally posted by raindancerob:
quote:
Originally posted by snerkler:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
We're not talking about the 90s, but about 1988, just for your info (maybe you could read ?). And sorry but I don't see many people listening to Hardcore from the 90s. I bet you don't even like the 120 BPM ;-)
And if everyone would have liked it, it wouldn't have changed.. take a track from 1988 and take one from 1992, you'll see the difference. It has completely changed... but WHY !?!??!?!? I thought everyone loved it Oo
Ok I am starting to get the impression you don't know what you're talking about. The progression and change within music is nothing to do with how popular it is, it is purely evolution. People are constantly wanting to push the boundaries and introduce new sounds. Without change music would get stale. And that goes across the board with music, whether it be dance music, rock music or jazz. Next you'll be saying that The Beatles weren't popular because their style of music changed many times since the 60's :-/
In 10 years time will you be saying that no-one likes hardcore from 2008-9 because the style has completely changed?
And I like hardcore from the 80's and 90's, and have many vinyl at around 120bpm. I would love it if hardcore went back to 120-135 bpm :-)
exactly & he clearly cant get it into his head as iv already said most of what you have.
Uhh you haven't said anything, you had poop arguments and 5 post after each other like everytime you post. There's a EDIT button, dunno if you noticed..
Yeah I agree with Snerkler this time, Breakbeat, as he said, allows you to be more expressive ( like you can dance to half beat, you can dance to 4 beat etc etc ) which isn't the case of 4-to-the-floor. Well actually this is the reason why I switched to DnB and Breakbeat Hardcore, I think it's more interesting than DUM DUM DUM DUM DUM :P
quote:
It wasn't like one week we were all dancing to Hardcore at 120bpm, then the next week we were bouncing around at 170-175bpm.
yea well I didn't know about that :P
Still makes my record a rare one :)
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snerkler
Senior Member
United Kingdom
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 22:28:55
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
quote:
Originally posted by raindancerob:
quote:
Originally posted by snerkler:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
quote:
Still makes my record a rare one :)
Oh yeah, rare records. Which one are you referring to again ;-) lol
On a slightly different tangent, one of the most expensive records at any given time that I own is one of the Silk Cut 10" Picture discs, a rip of the Savage Garden track to the moon and Back. A few years ago it was selling for £75-80 on ebay. Why oh why didn't I sell it, I don't even like it :-/
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Edited by - snerkler on 2009/08/30 22:44:43 |
Revs
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Posted - 2009/08/30 : 22:45:11
Wait some years maybe it will be worth even more ;)
The record is "Dux Dux - This Is a Sound" ;)
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