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Ionosphere
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,750 posts
Joined: Dec, 2004
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 Posted - 2007/08/07 : 11:09:15
quote:
Originally posted by SickPigRecords:
....hell i have made a whole tune in about one and a half hours wasn't great
....made a kickass hardcore tune in an hour just needed mixdown
....but some times i just cant finnish what i have started
Exactly.
If it ain't right....
....it's WRONG!  ....and 'right' takes a lot of time. 
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This- http://www.discogs.com/artist/Ionosphere
THIS - http://soundcloud.com/ionosphere
VIDEO - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nYWkHCkaho
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Edited by - Ionosphere on 2007/08/07 11:11:52 |
__CMC__
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
593 posts
Joined: Aug, 2007
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Posted - 2007/08/07 : 11:37:56
I would have to agree with that stamemnet they can be made in an hour or so!
Good friend of mine is a producer, although he hates hardcore. He is signed to a label and has had many vinyl pressed and released!
One day i was at his house just having a smoke and playing the decks, john major came on the TV he recorded the speech (some crap about drugs) then sampled his voice within the hour he had made quite a pumping techno track, better than alot of vinyl i have heard!
I am not saying i could do it, infact i would have no chance but depending on how good you can use your equipment it is possible! I have saw it with my own eyes!
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bulby_g
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts
Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/08/07 : 11:55:38
To write a track it could take an hour, it could take weeks or even years. Depends how quickly you get all the ideas together and get them down.
To get something properly mastered and tweaked it's gonna take longer than an hour! There would be a hell of a lot more music about if that were the case.
quote:
Originally posted by __CMC__:
One day i was at his house just having a smoke and playing the decks, john major came on the TV he recorded the speech (some crap about drugs) then sampled his voice within the hour he had made quite a pumping techno track, better than alot of vinyl i have heard!
Your friend may have written a decent track in that time but I can bet you he went back to it and spent plenty more time tweaking it and getting it mixed down properly!
Most people I know (myself included) get a track completed in 2 - 4 weeks on average. That's working (hard) on just that one track. However, from what I've heard it's not unusual for a professional engineer to get someone's track done in a 10 hour session.
It really depends just how picky you want to be, it's gonna take time to get everything right though!
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www.myspace.com/bulbyg
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Edited by - bulby_g on 2007/08/07 11:59:45 |
__CMC__
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
593 posts
Joined: Aug, 2007
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Posted - 2007/08/07 : 13:09:14
quote:
Originally posted by bulby_g:
It really depends just how picky you want to be, it's gonna take time to get everything right though!
Yeah i know mate i was just saying it can be done, he has told me it is easier and faster to do on the equipment rather than on the PC but thats his opinion! I cant do it on either so i can tell you mine :P
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Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2007/08/07 : 13:12:42
quote:
but I'm not going to pay the overly high prices on individual label's website. I went on the TnC website and there were tracks going for 2 ****ing pounds! I'm not going to pay 4 dollars for an mp3
It cost alot more a few years ago, when vinyl was the only option :P £2 is nothing imo!
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jenks
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,702 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/08/08 : 00:13:41
quote:
Originally posted by Pope C XXIII:
Seriously, I'm looking to buy hardcore, but I'm not going to pay the overly high prices on individual label's website. I went on the TnC website and there were tracks going for 2 ****ing pounds! I'm not going to pay 4 dollars for an mp3.
I don't see the problem to be honest, it doesn't seem much... But then again that might have something to do with how expensive the UK is, people are just used to it...
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DarrenJ
Advanced Member
Australia
2,626 posts
Joined: Jul, 2003
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Posted - 2007/08/08 : 09:28:26
I can understand the problem
dj bob has 10pounds:
1 gammer track
1 hixxys
3 darren style songs
this repeats 1000 times, we end up with hardcore nation dj's
need a system were u get the B side's with the A side "anthems"
or everything goes down hill
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☻hardcore
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deejaybee
Average Member
United Kingdom
193 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2007/08/08 : 11:26:18
Ok, im gunna put my point in now.
Im in the studio everyday at the moment, each track that comes from the studio will have anything from 8 hours to 32 hours production time (depending on many different factors) I have never made a tune that is releasable quality in 1 hour... im sorry but I would suggest to anyone who has a "mate" that makes a "brilliant" hardcore track in one hour to post it up on the net for us to listen too... im pretty quick at working cubase and my studio now, and even I cant do that.
Even when I worked with Seduction on a track, it took is 2 days to finnish... the process takes alot of time and thats that. Hell... a mixdown can take me a few hours alone.
£1.50 a track for all that work is not an unfair price, vinyl is costing more and more these days... you are looking at what £6.50 a vinyl now? £1.50 for a digital quality track is not an unfair price in any way or form... you cant put a small hardcore label in the same boat as a label such as Sony, BMG etc... these are multi billion pound orginisations who have more than one stream of revenue.
How many mp3's do you actually think are sold? a good release on imo etc might sell 40 copies... its not like hardcore producers are out buying cars and houses with this money.
I also dont understand this "its hardcore, it should be cheap / free / for the love" attitude anyways, these labels are business' they are even registered under companies house in the uk... just check their website and look up the names "elite music limited - sy, next generation music - brisk and ham etc" the list goes on... business needs to make money and thats the way of the world.
Why does everyone expect their favourite hardcore artist to live in loss of cash becuase they make a sound you enjoy? its a backwards idea that defo needs to change.
I think the problem with many people on this site is that you all have a slightly distorted view of what the hardcore scene actually is... all of the dj's that you love, from sy to scott brown, to hixxy etc.. they are all normal people with bills, debts, houses, cars etc... all of them trying to do what everyone else is and that is supply a decent living to themselves to support kids, wives, homes etc... why would they not want to make money from it? £1.50 is the price of a digital mp3... noone in this scene owes you anything so if you dont want to pay the price, do exactly that and dont pay it!
If people were knocking good tunes out in 1 hour... then yes, it might be considered a high price, but I assure you.. they are not.
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Hardcore, Its Everything That I Stand For.
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SiRave
Starting Member
United Kingdom
8 posts
Joined: Aug, 2007
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Posted - 2007/08/08 : 11:44:19
this is what i got for a just over a tenner the otherday -
S4, Phosphor - Irish revenge
Arkitech - A-type
Ephexis - Perpetuate/Intensify
Eryk Orpheus - PVC
Dave Elysium - No Limits
Sean Apollo - Raise It Up
Kev Energy & Cube::Hard - Voice of calme & taste the funk
id say thats pretty good value! 
any producer who releases a tune after an hour or even a day of work shouldn't deserve their title! even if your making some crappy little commercial track with a vocal line that loops for five minutes and a rbc riff with a quosh bassline it would still take more than an hour or whatever. most of the tunes on the market sound underproduced and 'quick fixes' made to solve the problem of "theres not enough money in my pocket!"
hardcore production is like a sport; its quick, everyone has their favourite side, its big money, its basically the same everytime, they take themselves far too seriously, everyone says its for your entertainment but really its just business
freeform production is like art; tunes are crafted and sculpted for weeks, even months at a time! individual artists are given the time they need to fully develop, its done for the love of creation and theyre not arsed about taking new directions that could be considered controversial
you can hear the difference cant you!
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You dont dance to this you just RAVE!!!
http://www.myspace.com/ravessoloproject
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__CMC__
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
593 posts
Joined: Aug, 2007
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Posted - 2007/08/08 : 12:00:44
quote:
Originally posted by deejaybee:
Ok, im gunna put my point in now.
Im in the studio everyday at the moment, each track that comes from the studio will have anything from 8 hours to 32 hours production time (depending on many different factors) I have never made a tune that is releasable quality in 1 hour... im sorry but I would suggest to anyone who has a "mate" that makes a "brilliant" hardcore track in one hour to post it up on the net for us to listen too...
As i said it was Techno and at no point did i say the track was brilliant i said it was better than alot of vinyl i had heard! If you believe me or not it really is irrelavent, i saw it with my own eyes and heard it with my ears!
I am not saying i could do this my mate has been producing music for about 10 years, (also plays drum, bass guitar, guitar, decks) he is incredibly talented at all aspect of music! He is also signed to a UK record label and has numerous releases out! (AGAIN HE HATED HARDCORE, THEREFORE NONE OF HIS TRACKS ARE HARDCORE)
You mention about Cubase read my other post he told me it was easier and faster to use proper equipment than it is PC apps (Again he told me so that is in his opinion)
And on a lighter note i am quite happy to pay £2 for the tune if it is good and most importantly its not a crappy 192Kbps mp3!
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,455 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2007/08/08 : 12:28:13
quote:
Originally posted by deejaybee:
Ok, im gunna put my point in now.
*clip*
I think, at least the majority, dont disagree with anything you said, except some disagree (seems to be mainly non UK people?) with the price. Me included.
If the price would be lower, i would go and buy the tracks i want. Now, i buy compilations, i get something like 60 tunes for £12. Id buy CD singles if they were available. But apart from the few CD-R's, their really rare. So the next would be mp3. But the price is over double compared to CD singles. With CD you get more for the money (physical product, better sound quality etc). So why is it that Hardcore music in digital format is a lot more expensive compared to CD singles? Is it that UK is more expensive in general or something else?
To compare
mp3's cost here (even in smaller genres then Hardcore) 1,19€ / £0,80
CD singles (3-5 tracks) cost here 4-5€ / £2,72-£3,40
So all in all, now you get probably that 1/100 part from the compilation i buy. Instead of me buying directly the tunes i want. The thing with UK Hardcore is, it has always been for DJ's. The whole scene is built so that the music listener dont get shit. Its filled with compilations with the same tracks splatterred on every new release, where the single artists dont get shit. A big part of listeners buy mixtapes, where the artists dont get even that little. And the only format, where you could actually buy directly the product you want, is overpriced.
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Edited by - whispering on 2007/08/08 12:35:15 |
__CMC__
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
593 posts
Joined: Aug, 2007
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Posted - 2007/08/08 : 12:43:11
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
quote:
but I'm not going to pay the overly high prices on individual label's website. I went on the TnC website and there were tracks going for 2 ****ing pounds! I'm not going to pay 4 dollars for an mp3
It cost alot more a few years ago, when vinyl was the only option :P £2 is nothing imo!
Not always, if buying UK relesase it depends where you shop! HMV sell 3 for a tenner (or use to anyway)
A quick look at their site show that both "Defected and Postiva" vinyl both cost £3.99 with free shipping! And before you say they don't release HHC i went with they 2 as there a couple of the most popualr labels in the UK the release EDM music!
Pro's & Con's - £2 for a mp3 or £3.99 for a vinyl
mp3 - only get that 1 song
vinly - could have numerous song or different mixes of the same track
mp3 - 192 or 320 kbps
vinyl - have a something you can hold, much better sound quality and the possibility to rip it to wav
And all this crap about but we make HHC, that is irrelevant also! Does it cost you more to make HHC? Someone mentioned about having bills to pay, IMO we are all adults and if what your doing is not paying the bills then you need to look at your job and consider changing it rather than ripping off HHC fans
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Jax
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,676 posts
Joined: Apr, 2005
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Posted - 2007/08/08 : 14:00:40
Thats my point, If you remove the VAT, vinyl costs approx £4, thats £2 a tune. The same as MP3's, which are sold as memory, which costs practically nothing, i mean for a label to host them on their site will cost no more than their normal hosting package would cost, but when you look @ vinyl, you have to bring in the whole process of making the vinyl, labels, sleves, artwork, delivery and distribution.
No one has mentioned the radio edits either really.. i think there is a big market out there of people who just want to listen to hardcore and not mix it. Releasing radio edits for say 40 - 50p could make you more money than the ones you sell to djs
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,455 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2007/08/08 : 14:20:13
quote:
Originally posted by Jax:
No one has mentioned the radio edits either really.. i think there is a big market out there of people who just want to listen to hardcore and not mix it. Releasing radio edits for say 40 - 50p could make you more money than the ones you sell to djs
I would be very intrested in radio edits.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,282 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/08/08 : 16:53:27
since I use mp3s to DJ, i wouldn't want radio edits :P
anyways. _CMC_.. technically, vinyl doesn't have better quality than an MP3. It really is sad that tracks are sold in a format that cuts down on hearable bandwidths, but I'd rather prefer MP3 towards an crackly vinyl, that I need to buy a proper player,needle, cleaning set and cleaning software just to make it sound good on my computer afterwords.
I dont think people dont buy hardcore because of the price (or that the tracks are too long). I think it's mostly because not everyone who listens to Hardcore has a creditcard, or a paypal that is connected to an bankaccount.
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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