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choonland
Advanced Member
Colombia
1,100 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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 Posted - 2008/07/31 : 09:06:48
I read in other topic that the kick and the bass should be in the center channel, and hihats and rides should be divided in right and left. that makes sense, but Im wondering what happen with the rest of the sounds in a song: lead synths, secondary synths, pads, fx.. etc?
I ask because often my tracks get crowed and some sounds are not audible, and Im not sure how to pan them to make all sound good... how to get all the mix balanced, without any channel sounds louder than the others?? etc etc
some tips about this would be great!
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bulby_g
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2008/07/31 : 09:29:21
It really is going by ear mate. I quite often pan the higher layer/s of my riff left and right but that's more because it makes the riff wider and sounds nice. Just experiment each time and see what works best for your track.
On my percussion I work a bit more to a "rulebook". I Pan things about30% left or right and try and get an even distribution of sound. I also try and pan that sounds that have the nearest frequency peaks in opposite directions.
Best not to pan the clap/snare as it should sit central with the kick IMO.
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silver
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Japan
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Posted - 2008/07/31 : 11:26:13
Stereo FX are basically no good for club music including hardcore as at least 50% of the club systems run in mono, big PA systems only run in mono thats why most tracks don't have panning or stereo effects.
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bulby_g
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2008/07/31 : 11:51:41
? I know a lot of club systems run in mono but nobody makes tracks in mono. Everyone I know usees both panning and stereo effects in their tracks. :) You would have a terrible sounding track if it was made in mono and then played on any stereo soundsystem.
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Jax
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2008/07/31 : 13:26:48
^ Thats what i would of thought. A stereo track on a mono system will sound ok, a mono track on a stereo system would waste all the time and effort of setting up the rig in stereo, and there are a lot of people who run in stereo. If one producer made in stereo and u made in mono, it would sound awful in comparison on a stereo rig
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Dain-Ja
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Canada
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Posted - 2008/07/31 : 16:03:26
yeah, you don't want to go CRAZY on the stereo effects, but producing in mono in this day and age is crazy
...just make sure your bass/bassline are mono and you'll be fine
all the raves I've been to/played at have had stereo sound but maybe it's different in the UK
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DJ_FunDaBounce
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Colombia
2,085 posts
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Posted - 2008/07/31 : 18:10:18
quote:
Originally posted by manuelf:
I ask because often my tracks get crowed and some sounds are not audible, and Im not sure how to pan them to make all sound good... how to get all the mix balanced, without any channel sounds louder than the others?? etc etc
sounds like you need monitors.
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Underloop
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2008/07/31 : 20:03:02
Silver has a very very valid point in that although it is good to mix in stereo for non-club situations, not all stereo tracks come out well in mono. You can get phasing effects where some sounds are out of phase with each other and when mixed down from stereo to mono cancel out. It is absolutely vital that you check your mix in mono before you master to check this out!
Other than that, do what sounds good, although I tend to avoid extreme left and right for single instruments. To widen the track you can always duplicate the track and pan each copy hard left and hard right.
Bass frequencies aren't really that directional, so if you pan it to the side it will still tend to sound central and may even come out quieter so it is best to save some space around the centre of the stereo field for your bass sounds.
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choonland
Advanced Member
Colombia
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Posted - 2008/08/01 : 03:34:45
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
To widen the track you can always duplicate the track and pan each copy hard left and hard right.
I ve been thinking about this, if boths copies are panned in opposite sides, is not the same than having it all in the centre? does it really makes a diference?
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silver
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Japan
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Posted - 2008/08/01 : 07:07:29
I'm dead serious, some PA systems run on 1 channel only, if your track pans 100% to the right and the PA system is running on the left channel nothing will come out of the speakers.
If it doesn't sound good on a big PA no big DJ's will play it, in fact they will think you're n00b even. The only track that I know from a major hardcore producer that has panning in it is Gammer's remix of music is movin on Nukleuz.
Ever been DJed on a really big PA system and wonder why the DJ mixer panning doesn't work? Because the PA system is run in mono.
Club systems, smaller setups maybe in stereo but at least 50% of the big systems ones I've been on are setup in mono.
I'm not saying mono is better than stereo, quite obviously it's not but just letting you know how things are setup.
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Starstruck
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Australia
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Posted - 2008/08/01 : 09:27:47
quote:
Originally posted by Dain-Ja:
yeah, you don't want to go CRAZY on the stereo effects, but producing in mono in this day and age is crazy
...just make sure your bass/bassline are mono and you'll be fine
all the raves I've been to/played at have had stereo sound but maybe it's different in the UK
i know alot of established drum and bass producers who mix down on mono spekaers..
and as pointed out, your bass line, or at least a part of ur bassline, for eg, a layer sub bass must be in mono, along with ur kick, and possibly some really deep and low pads...
as an idea ive always been told that raves are set up with mono sound systems...
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bulby_g
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2008/08/01 : 09:51:38
quote:
Originally posted by silver:
I'm dead serious, some PA systems run on 1 channel only, if your track pans 100% to the right and the PA system is running on the left channel nothing will come out of the speakers.
If it doesn't sound good on a big PA no big DJ's will play it, in fact they will think you're n00b even. The only track that I know from a major hardcore producer that has panning in it is Gammer's remix of music is movin on Nukleuz.
Ever been DJed on a really big PA system and wonder why the DJ mixer panning doesn't work? Because the PA system is run in mono.
Club systems, smaller setups maybe in stereo but at least 50% of the big systems ones I've been on are setup in mono.
I'm not saying mono is better than stereo, quite obviously it's not but just letting you know how things are setup.
Agree with that completely but still don't know anyone who makes tracks in mono and don't think it's a good idea!
What do you mean by panning and stereo effect Silver? Are you talking the whole track being panned or anything like that? It's a normal thing for people to pan their percussion and for example, Gabber Kicks on the last bar of a loop often bounce between left and right speakers? Not a full pan in either direction but you can hear the movement clear enough on a good stereo setup.
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Edited by - bulby_g on 2008/08/01 09:52:35 |
Jax
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2008/08/01 : 09:58:12
When a system is in mono, do they not merge the left and right channels together to make one?
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DJ_FunDaBounce
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Colombia
2,085 posts
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Posted - 2008/08/01 : 18:00:51
quote:
Originally posted by manuelf:
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
To widen the track you can always duplicate the track and pan each copy hard left and hard right.
I ve been thinking about this, if boths copies are panned in opposite sides, is not the same than having it all in the centre? does it really makes a diference?
made a simple test on my sequencer.here's what I got from copying the same mono track and panning it hard left and hard right and then comparing that to the mono version.There's about a 2.5 db difference in overall level(the mono track being the lower one)but other than that it sounds exactly the same to my ears.
There should be a difference though when the tracks have subtle variations to them.whether it be a slight timbre varitaion or playing differences like when you, for exmpl, double a guitar part.
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No Left Turn
Senior Member
United States
474 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
242 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2008/08/04 : 06:33:56
Effects gotta be in stereo. You're going to lose depth, sense of space, and just overall sound if you, literally, run everything in mono. Delays, reverbs, chorus, etc... is going to sound so tiny when you run it in mono.
When you're mentioning "stereo fx", it seems like you're talking about panning being used as an effect. I've heard a couple tracks by Kurt and Fracus that use hard panning for some small effects, but not real drastically or on any major part of the track. Really only a couple tracks out of the dozens and dozens that I've heard from them.
I think what Silver means by "stereo fx" is using hard panning or drastic panning. You'll lose a lot of your rhythm section in the club if you pan your drums (hi-hat to the right, toms left-to-right, etc.) and then same for any glitches/fills that hard pan left or right. And use mono samples when you can. A lot of sample libraries, like Vengeance for example, already process percussions in stereo, so you can just leave those like they are.
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Deverse
Senior Member
Australia
294 posts
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Posted - 2008/08/04 : 06:47:51
Ummmm, I only pan my percussion. That about it.
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