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Orbit1
Senior Member
Australia
400 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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 Posted - 2007/11/24 : 03:02:47
But the problem is Bobby is that it probably won't happen again.
The more commercial guys, they're ok. They have money. But what about the smaller and more innovative labels where every unit of vinyl counts?
Its not going to weed out anything? It will mean that more people are going to try and more more commerical and less innovative music to try and tell more.
What labels are pumping out garbage right now? Maybe the tiny digital labels where it doesn't cost them a thing to put mp3s up, but as far as I know most of anything coming out is actually decent.
If anything, its going to sift out those that are more more marketable and more commercial from the underground and make that rift even bigger. The underground sound getting less and less sales and probably dropping off, the more commercial remixing pop tunes, not really innovating and then the whole thing going stale.
I hope it doesn't happen, but it will probably go that way.
:(
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Ghetto_smurf420
New Member
Canada
72 posts
Joined: Nov, 2006
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 04:05:07
Ok Ive Been On The Resist Site And It Says Nothing .... Are We Maybe Not Getting Ahead Of Ourselves A Little Bit....?
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Orbit1
Senior Member
Australia
400 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 04:08:30
or perhaps the site is well behind. Its also very very early saturday morning.
Probably won't hear anything official until monday.
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Jimmygoat
Average Member
Bahamas
225 posts
Joined: Apr, 2003
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 Posted - 2007/11/24 : 09:25:07
Some of you are complete twats when it comes to using your brains (actually its probably a lack of understanding, but thats the outcome... i am only addressing the retard who's name i cant be bothered to agknowledge- it would be wrong!)- I think one of the hardest hit has been next generation in the last week or so. Thye pressed their own records and released 2 a month without fail where quite a few other labels either didnt have so much caught in the pipeline OR were pressed by amato and therefore didnt lose their money (just wont get the profits).
Resist going bust hurts the smaller artists who were relying on those payouts.
This has hit most hardcore producers hard... what needs to be done now is some serious thinking about the value of our tunes and why sales dropped off- where is the income for producers...
Its not in vinyl.
Its no longer in compilations (not much left for MOST people as tracklists are heavily owned by the djs mixing)- surely cd packs have to stop now as producers cant afford to give their music away??
Also, its worth pointing out clearly, that its not due to overwhelming high sales that these things are happening despite the popularity or hardcore. Sadly, i think it wont filter through to all the people buying cd packs and downloading music/ sharing that these are knock on consequences.. Rarrr..
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Orbit1
Senior Member
Australia
400 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 09:54:20
Agree with you 100% jimmygoat.
The thing that confuses me the most is exactly that, hardcore is getting more and more popular, but sales are at an all time low!
No real income for produces on the black crack, or on the digital, and the smaller peeps will be locked out of albums! what do we do?
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Jimmygoat
Average Member
Bahamas
225 posts
Joined: Apr, 2003
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 10:15:38
a few other genres have got over the file sharing thing to some extent- house music for example has a healthy amount of downloads, the younger generation dont understand quite as much the importance of not just taking things for free. The house music crowd are a bit older, one of my friends releasing soulful house music does over 600 downloads on one store alone and just under that on another store- the run of the mill equivelent hardcore download does less than 60.
However, i think anyboy thinking they can change that attitude is facing a losing battle! A good example would be to type in a hardcore artist such as darren styles on youtube and you get a picture of extreme euphoria cover and somebody has taken the time to upload the tune- do the same for my house music friends label and it doesnt need the so called promotion (its not there) or subliminal records etc. Its just an age/ culture thing- the kids dont realise how self destructive they are and the cd pack producers are happy to take the money!
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,073 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 10:49:32
Could that be the reason why raverbaby only keeps selling HTID cd/tape packs than rather releasing singles?
Some of you people know that I fileshare (should you all know that? :P), and I wont try to defend myself by saying that I do not hurt Hardcore, but I dont think it's that much. Ofcourse, going digital also means it will be easier for the twats (I wont say me, as I actually buy Hardcore in most formats, and don't download.. or buy the stuff I don't want) to get the tracks.
And trying to put some kind of copy-protection on the files are just the same as ripping a vinyl.
So in the end, filesharing will always be there.
I want labels to atleast do more CD Singles, but if distrubitors keep getting bust... It may never happen I guess, but will it open up for digital sales? I hope so, and if it means I have to stop fielsharing, I'd be glad to (atleast when it comes to CD and digital)
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Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
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Edited by - Samination on 2007/11/24 10:56:38 |
Jimmygoat
Average Member
Bahamas
225 posts
Joined: Apr, 2003
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 11:19:05
but if you multiply up all the people you share to (lets pretend its only 3) then all of them do a few more each and so on- the one file you sent out is 30- oops- in the vinyl days that was 30 sales. You are just one of many who dont understand, so pointless just punching you in the head, but it would make a start.
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Orbit1
Senior Member
Australia
400 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 11:42:15
fact is, its just gotten to the stage where sales are so bad in hardcore that *every* unit counts.
Producers need every penny just to survive. As far as I'm away CD singles just don't work either.
I'll be honest with everyone here, as much as I love my hardcore (and I do love my hardcore) I'm gonna be forced to direct the majority of my effort and attention elsewhere.
I'm sure loads of other producers are going to be the same too.
Really crap news :(
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,073 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 11:50:01
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmygoat:
but if you multiply up all the people you share to (lets pretend its only 3) then all of them do a few more each and so on- the one file you sent out is 30- oops- in the vinyl days that was 30 sales. You are just one of many who dont understand, so pointless just punching you in the head, but it would make a start.
Atleast I'm not denying it am I?
I got into hardcore throu filesharing, and if I had never fileshared, I would propably still not know what Hardcore was. I actually had both Off Yer Nut!! 1 and 2 before I i started to download Hardcore, but I disliked them
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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TypeR
Advanced Member
Unknown
2,633 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
55 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 12:20:37
I dont understand how my opinion makes me a twat. You see, since there isn't any distro in the states then how am I supposed to feel about it? We can't go to the record store and buy hardcore records. We can't go buy Bonkers 136 or any of those cd's. When we do order something, it takes weeks or months to get here and once it does it has gotten cained by everyone on the planet by then.
Hardcore dj's and producers that know me personally know that I make every attempt to purchase tunes or records from them personally so that the money goes to them directly into their bank account, so needless to say most of the time I don't have to rely on record stores and such. If they can't press vinyl, then guess what? I wouldn't have any problem whatsoever paying the same price for a download from them. If they said that the download were to cost the same as a vinyl, I would gladly pay that price because it gets them the hard earned cash that they deserve.
So before you go on calling me a twat, why don't you go ask the producers that I pay directly for their music how much money they've gotten from me personally. You see, some of these guys I would consider friends of mine and I wish no harm to come to them financially, so instead of paying Nuenergy.co.uk for their tracks I paypal it to them into their account.
So to anyone that says that I may not support the hardcore scene, you're dead ****ing wrong because I support them directly. Right into their hands, not to a distro site. If artists haven't gotten any money from me, it's because I don't support their music. That isn't unfair of me to say one bit.
Everyone wants to complain that there won't be anymore mix cds to buy anymore.
How about this, and this may come to a surprise:
Stop buying event tape packs and support the artists directly.
If you want them to make tunes for you to dance to and play for other people, pay them, not someone else that may end up ****ing them over.
Robbie Long told me once, "A plumber buys his tools so that he can get paid for his job. A dj pays for his records so that he can get paid for his job as well."
That stuck with me and impacted me in such a way that I have no problem sending him money. I buy tunes directly from the label sites when possible, That way the artists get the money in the bank.
Maybe you should follow my example instead of calling me a twat.
If the hardcore artists that I support ask me to pay them directly for their product I gladly have pen and checkbook in hand for them. I pay them the ammount that they ask to be paid and they get it immediately.
So all assumptions aside, what do you think of me now? Not so much of a retard now am I. I don't support distro that can potentially **** over artists and labels when they go tits up, I support the artists and labels directly when I can.
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Edited by - TypeR on 2007/11/24 12:41:22 |
Brainchild
Average Member
United Kingdom
193 posts
Joined: Sep, 2006
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 13:10:42
Let's say that Resist did go bankrupt. I'm not saying it has or it hasn't because I'm awaiting the official announcement. But let's say for arguments sake that they did go to the wall. I do personally believe that it will be the end of Bonkers. Certainly as it is at the moment, if not forever.
For starters, I can't see who would want to pick it up. AATW have Cluland Extreme Hardcore. Nukleuz have Hardcore Adrenaline and Ministry of Sound have their Helter Skelter albums. So I can't see any of them picking it up.
Secondly, even if someone did decide to pick up Bonkers and continue makin it, I very much doubt they'll continue with number 18. It will be most likely in my view, and it is only my view, that it will begin back at number 1. Probably with a new logo and a different look as well as possible different DJ's. Just to seperate it from the old.
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TypeR
Advanced Member
Unknown
2,633 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
55 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 13:35:29
So now that I know that Jimmygoat is CLSM it makes a little more sense as to why he came at me all sideways about it.
Offer stands. If I feel as though I would benefit as a dj to support your music as well, I'd buy it from you personally.
You see, I support only a few Artists and Producers personally because I only play their music. I don't go and buy every new release just because it's hardcore. I don't support online record shops unless I have to because I want the artists to have all the money, not only part of it.
I don't own but 3 commercial hardcore mix cd's. One of them was a gift from Robbie. One I bought from Brisk from his site along with 15 records and 3 tee shirts (when Next Gen still had a store) And the other from Simon Apex.
They are that hard to get ahold of unless you buy from hardbeatstore.com or Choice or IMO.
Labels I support:
Thin and Crispy first and foremost. I own their entire catalog past present and future. I buy directly from Robbie.
Next Generation and Blatant Beats. I buy from hardbeatstore.com only because I have to. If Paul were to call me and tell me that I can purchase directly from him, believe me, he'd have my money sitting in his had immediately, and I've told him so, just waiting on a reply since he's a pretty busy dude.
Future Dance. Only about for the past few tunes released though. Also purchased from Hardbeatstore.com. Didn't have an option.
Artist I support, Robbie, Stormtrooper, D-Lyte, Injured Rez, MD, Brisk, Ham, Joey Riot, Kurt, Ethos
If you aren't on the list, that means that I don't play your music currently.
If you want me to play your music, make it available to me as an option to purchase it directly from you so that you get paid, and guess what, you'll get played, and paid.
*edited to say: Almost all of the artists tracks are on the same label, as not to create confusion that I personally send each one of them money. I send it to the label.*
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Edited by - TypeR on 2007/11/24 13:53:58 |
Orbit1
Senior Member
Australia
400 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 13:52:20
Bobby, buying direct from Robbie is great, but I can almost guarrantee vinyl doesn't actually bring him a profit. Most labels either do it and breakeven or press at a loss.
Smaller labels NEED the bigger distros/companies to throw their weight around. The majority of most labels income doesnt come from vinyl. Vinyl doesn't make money, at least not in hardcore. It comes from the big compilation CDs and when a company like Resist goes bust, it means that advances going to the artists and labels don't get paid. And thats a serious loss.
Yes, its great that you actually pay the artists directly, but once again, in the grand scheme of things, its still peanuts compared to what the distributors or bigger labels like React/Nukleuz/GutTV actually pay the labels and the artists.
Will be interesting to see if you'll play my forthcoming tunes on TNC too :P
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Edited by - Orbit1 on 2007/11/24 13:56:38 |
TypeR
Advanced Member
Unknown
2,633 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
55 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/11/24 : 13:56:14
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
Will be interesting to see if you'll play my forthcoming tunes on TNC too :P
we'll just have to see ;)
You can bet your money the answer is yes.
I was just making a point to inform Mr. Clsm that I do in fact know what I'm talking about, and in the grand scheme of things, my peanuts can add up. I don't play his tunes, and after so fondly being called a retard by him on public forum, I doubt I will in the future either. You see, retention is also key. Just because I don't play his records doesn't mean that I don't respect him. He doesn't actually care how I feel since he personally doesn't see my money, I'm just a bunch of white letters inside a blue box on a web forum. But in real life I'm a stateside hardcore dj going seven years strong. Not in a bedroom, but at raves. But we don't really matter as much because we aren't seen.
You see, Bonkers is great and all. If it were something that everyone could have instead of just the British, then it would be greater.
Imagine how much better sales would be if it were just a little bit easier to purchase huh.
Retention of business means to retain business. If you don't want to retain business, you lose business. If you don't want to make money, don't make your product available to everyone willing to purchase. If it takes ten years to recieve a purchase from a store, trust me, that will turn off a lot of people from purchasing it again. So big budget cds turn a distro tits up. Imagine how less tits up it would be if it weren't only exclusive to a country as big as the state of Texas. There are 49 other states over here full of hardcore fiends that would die to be able to buy that shit at the local Walmart.
It isn't going to happen, it will never happen, so all in all distro companies ate themselves by offering a product to only a select market, the share wasn't enough to pay the bills and business folds.
It's a big world out here, and sometimes, we all want a piece of the action. And are willing to pay top dollar for it.
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Edited by - TypeR on 2007/11/24 14:07:07 |
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Resist Gone Bust
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