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snerkler
Senior Member
United Kingdom
461 posts
Joined: Aug, 2008
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 Posted - 2009/09/18 : 09:50:15
quote:
Originally posted by Smoogie:
Didn't hear any crap on Bonkers 1? (except Fairground & Wonderland lol)
I only listened to Sharkey's mix on Bonkers 18. Not got round to the others yet & I have had it a month lol
Didn't necessarily say there was crap on each album, just that they weren't full of the BEST tunes around at the time ;-)
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SPOOX
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,644 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 11:06:24
quote:
Originally posted by snerkler:
quote:
Originally posted by Naturatech:
i know must of us complain about how there is so many bad songs coming out in the present, and how hardcore is in crisis... etc.
but while listening bonkers, i've been thinking that perhaps the proportion bad-tracks/good-tracks has always been the same
i mean, bonkers without any doubt has the most memorable tracks of all time, and thats why we love it... but you have to admit that there is a lot of crap tunes in there too
and i can't imagine how many worst tunes never got to be in the bonkers series
so what im saying is that, yeah, the past gave us great tracks, but don't forget the ugly cousin tunes
there has been crap, there is crap, and there will be crap
so stop saying the past was better, or that hardcore is in crisis
:P
I disagree with a lot of this. Whilst Bonkers had some great tracks, I can't remember a single Bonkers that was full of the best tracks from the time. There were a lot more better tracks around.
Yes there was crap back then and there will always be crap, but I do believe there is a bigger percentage of crap around these days. Back in the early to mid 90's I would go to my local record shop, dig out about 30-40 records, and would end up buying over half of them. Nowadays I'll buy 2 or 3 cos the rest are garbage. Therefore I would come to the conclusion from this that there is a lot more crap out there.
I will always say that the past WAS better, and no-one will ever convince me otherwise. Yes there is the odd excellent track still being released (Feeling High by Slippery Disco is a great example, awesome track), but there are too many people releasing stuff for a quick buck and not bothered about the quality of the music.
Absolutely spot on mate & 100% agree. Finally somebody who knows what they're talking about. 
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Edited by - SPOOX on 2009/09/18 11:09:25 |
Jester MC
Senior Member
Canada
284 posts
Joined: May, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 14:40:56
gotta start with something thats been bugging me and i saw brought up again.
NOBODY in any profession but lets stick with music, makes crap ON PURPOSE just to make a buck. THAT IS ABSURD! your telling me, that someone who loves their music so much, that making it becomes their living, who is good enough at it to make quality and have a DECENT living. in ****ing HARDCORE no less, decides that "oh y'know, i didnt put much into this song, i toatally stole the hook from a chart topper, sounds just like my last release, but y'know what? im going to release it because other wise i'll have to ....i dunno sell my lambo to make rent this month?
use your heads people. why is anybody at the top different from anyone trying to make it. I DARE YOU TO MAKE IT TO THE TOP AND IMMEDIATLY SAY **** IT I CAN NOW MAKE CRAP AND MAKE MONEY BECAUSE IM THE SHIT. you wont last 6 months. i believe whole heartedly that all producers put everything they can into their music. or else they wouldnt be making it. they'd have a 9-5. in fact on the other hand many people dont make it but love it so much they keep producing, or making music of some kind without the pay off. does that mean its better because its done for free. personally, you want to make me do something well, the easyest way is to PAY ME!
oh ya and as i already stated in another thread NO ONE IN ANY GENRE ON THIS PLANET MAKES MONEY FROM THEIR MUSIC SALES! ALLLLLL MONEY IS MADE FROM SHOWS. be in hardcore, rap, sharron lois and bram. CONCERTS AND SHOWS. THATS IT. so maybe think twice about why tracks dont sound great comming from your computer speakers. all music is now made to be played LIVE.
*deep breath.
now as far as old vs new i actally think you DID need to have been there partying when the old stuff came out and was fresh, or you will always have a skewed view on it. i wasnt there. ive heard the music. i like it, i can IMAGINE what it was like, will i ever really KNOW what the sounds were like when fresh? no.
i refuse to go further into it because im amazed at how many times threads on this site argue OPINIONS as FACT. i love the forums, but i think we forget that music is all subjective no matter what. you like it or you dont. your more then welcome to state why you like or dislike it, or to discuss finer points. but when anyone says "THIS IS CRAP" or THIS IS GREAT" remember someone somewhere sees it the opposite. no one will ever like everything.
all i know is for someone to TRULY have a valid point you must have been around back then, still be around now, and love examples of both, and then and only then do you have an OPINION that i will listen to. that is an opinion id very much be interested then as well. some of you on this thread may meet these reqirements i just dont know well enough.
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Project-Industrial
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Netherlands
2,481 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
33 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 14:57:59
if ya dont like hardcore anymore stop listening it nd stop whining about it :) nuff said. useless topic imho
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Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,640 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 17:53:49
someone just changed something in the matrix! :o
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snerkler
Senior Member
United Kingdom
461 posts
Joined: Aug, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 18:21:46
quote:
all i know is for someone to TRULY have a valid point you must have been around back then, still be around now, and love examples of both, and then and only then do you have an OPINION that i will listen to. that is an opinion id very much be interested then as well. some of you on this thread may meet these reqirements i just dont know well enough.
That'd be me then :-) And I've shared my opinion. My opinion is that I'm afriad I think you're a bit naive if you believe that there aren't people out there to make a quick buck. Yes there are the quality producers out there that will release a lot of consistent quality stuff, but there are also a lot of people who jump on the band wagon, and want to get out of it whatever they can, whether it be money (which you're right in saying isn't a lot) or their 15 minutes of fame.
This is why a lot of producers are here one minute and gone the next. You can tell a lot of time from the depth of the music just how much time and effort went into it. Take Luna-C's stuff on kniteforce, so much time and effort went into most of his stuff. Whether I like it or not is a different matter, but I will never say it's crap just cos I don't like it, I'm not that shallow. When I say a record's crap it's when it's obvious that a lot of time hasn't gone into it, like they don't care. I can hate a track but still say it's a quality record.
I think one of the problems is that it's so much easier to produce tracks these days, and so every Tom Dick and Harry can do it if they want. Becasue of this you are inevitably going to get a higher percentage of crap. It's up to the labels to filter their stuff better imo.
So to repeat myself, I genuinely believe that in days gone by there was a consistently higher percentage of good tracks than crap ones compared with today. Like I said, I can appreciate that a track is good even if I don't like it, so it's irrelevent as to whether I personally prefer oldskool, mid 90's, early 00's or current stuff.
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Vladel
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,526 posts
Joined: Feb, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 18:48:52
1999 hardcore went down the toilet! 2009........................................................
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Luna-C
Average Member
United Kingdom
222 posts
Joined: Dec, 2004
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Posted - 2009/09/19 : 16:55:52
As you get older, you start to see how all things go in cycles of around 10 years. Its why your parents only listen to the music they grew up with. An example, a friend of mine love Metallica. I dont like them, but I love System Of A Down. It is easy to see that System Of A Down would not exist without Metallica having come before and pioneering that sound. But I got into System first, then when I heard Metallica, it sounded old, dated and bland. When he got into Metallica when they first came out, it was fresh, new, amazing. System sound to him like they copied Metallica. Metallica sound to me like badly made System.
Same with hardcore. How you view the music very much depends on when you got into the scene and how long you have been listening to the music. I am close to 20 years now, I have seen things go around twice already lol...Its very hard for me to get excited about new hardcore, not because its bad, but because its not that new to me. I always have to remind myself to try and listen with unjaded ears. Someone who has jus got into the scene will hear the music differently to how I do.
But back to the subject - yes, there has always been a lot of crap. I was buying records in 1990 and there was a lot of crap then, too. The difference is scale. 1990 - 1995 there was a huge amount of music being released, so there were a large amount of classic tunes, many great ones, many crap ones. Now there is much less being released, so less classics, few goods, and of course the poor quality ones too. Only, with so much less to choose from, you notice the poor ones more than you would have in 1990.
Thats my 2 cents for the day :o)
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MAtRiCks
Advanced Member
Canada
1,059 posts
Joined: Sep, 2006
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Posted - 2009/09/19 : 17:09:51
^^^^
Spot on!
Here is a guy able to use his brain and rationalize.
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Edited by - MAtRiCks on 2009/09/19 17:10:18 |
djepi
Junior Member
United Kingdom
115 posts
Joined: Nov, 2004
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Posted - 2009/09/19 : 23:03:42
Bonkers up to around release 10 were rubbish (...waits for backlash)
There were loads of craps tunes back in the day...
But hey not of what we say matters lol - who cares.
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DJ_FunDaBounce
Advanced Member
Colombia
2,151 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2009/09/20 : 01:08:58
quote:
Originally posted by Luna-C:
As you get older, you start to see how all things go in cycles of around 10 years. Its why your parents only listen to the music they grew up with. An example, a friend of mine love Metallica. I dont like them, but I love System Of A Down. It is easy to see that System Of A Down would not exist without Metallica having come before and pioneering that sound. But I got into System first, then when I heard Metallica, it sounded old, dated and bland. When he got into Metallica when they first came out, it was fresh, new, amazing. System sound to him like they copied Metallica. Metallica sound to me like badly made System.
Well put.
This is the reason why it's so hard for the majority of people to get into a new/different style of music than what they're used to. Even if there's great stuff in what has already passed it will always get compared to the current standard.
I've personally been listening to hardcore for like 12 years ('98 - early 2000's were the years for me) and some early 90's ol'skool stuff...
I just dont get it! :P
on the point of there always being crap around...
To me, the whole point of there being DJ's was to be a sort of filter to the good stuff. Class DJ's stand out for their track selection imo. That's how you found the classics and that's why you forgot the crap quickly.
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Edited by - DJ_FunDaBounce on 2009/09/20 01:22:46 |
TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/20 : 01:24:10
quote:
Originally posted by DJ_FunDaBounce:
Class DJ's stand out for their track selection imo. That's how you found the classics and that's why you forgot the crap quickly.
I support this!
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warped_candykid
Advanced Member
United States
4,001 posts
Joined: Jan, 2004
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Posted - 2009/09/20 : 01:39:31
Well, I wasn't around for the 90s Happy Hardcore, but I love the older sound anyday over the new. Now, that's not to say that I don't appreciate what's coming out now. I always seem to find tracks that really stand out to me off cd releases. I also keep a watch on SeriousSounds and Imodownload for new tracks, and I have to say, I am liking this new Candy Crush label. I got the new HTID album, and the tracks are ok for a cd release, but not many attracted my attention enough to buy the actual track, though "Dress You Up" is a stomper. I can listen to old skool HHC and find terrible tracks just as I can with the new stuff. I wish the production style would change though in the upfront tracks, like instead of just a bland middle section, ADD SOMETHING!! Add some chessy bridge or a stomping drum or some twisted vocal effects, just something!! It's become to "clean" sounding. I think many artists are just loosing their imaginations.
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Edited by - warped_candykid on 2009/09/20 01:40:36 |
snerkler
Senior Member
United Kingdom
461 posts
Joined: Aug, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/21 : 09:57:28
quote:
Originally posted by Luna-C:
As you get older, you start to see how all things go in cycles of around 10 years. Its why your parents only listen to the music they grew up with. An example, a friend of mine love Metallica. I dont like them, but I love System Of A Down. It is easy to see that System Of A Down would not exist without Metallica having come before and pioneering that sound. But I got into System first, then when I heard Metallica, it sounded old, dated and bland. When he got into Metallica when they first came out, it was fresh, new, amazing. System sound to him like they copied Metallica. Metallica sound to me like badly made System.
Same with hardcore. How you view the music very much depends on when you got into the scene and how long you have been listening to the music. I am close to 20 years now, I have seen things go around twice already lol...Its very hard for me to get excited about new hardcore, not because its bad, but because its not that new to me. I always have to remind myself to try and listen with unjaded ears. Someone who has jus got into the scene will hear the music differently to how I do.
But back to the subject - yes, there has always been a lot of crap. I was buying records in 1990 and there was a lot of crap then, too. The difference is scale. 1990 - 1995 there was a huge amount of music being released, so there were a large amount of classic tunes, many great ones, many crap ones. Now there is much less being released, so less classics, few goods, and of course the poor quality ones too. Only, with so much less to choose from, you notice the poor ones more than you would have in 1990.
Thats my 2 cents for the day :o)
A lot of this makes sense, but I disagree slightly that you would notice more of the crap ones if there was less to choose from. You could flip the coin and say you'd notice the good ones more because there are fewer to choose from.
I still maintain my arguement that regardless of how many tracks were/are realeased the relative percentage of crap tracks is higher now than before. Just my opinion.
For example if 50 new tracks were realeased in a week back in the early 90's, maybe 25-30 would be good, so that's 50-60% of all tracks released were good. Nowadays, lets say for arguements sake 20 new tracks are realeased, only 2 or 3 are good, so that's only 10-15% of all tracks released are good.
I honestly don't think that this is down to my preference in the music, I am as eager to buy records today as I was back then, and like I've mentioned before, tracks like "Feeling High" will certainly rank highly in my all time greats. The only trouble is I can't find that many good tracks these days.
This is just my opinion on it all, from someone who has been around from day one. Some will agree some won't, but my opinion won't change.
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Edited by - snerkler on 2009/09/21 09:59:54 |
MAtRiCks
Advanced Member
Canada
1,059 posts
Joined: Sep, 2006
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Posted - 2009/09/21 : 13:10:16
quote:
Originally posted by snerkler:
[...]
I still maintain my arguement that regardless of how many tracks were/are realeased the relative percentage of crap tracks is higher now than before. Just my opinion.
[...]
I honestly don't think that this is down to my preference in the music, I am as eager to buy records today as I was back then, and like I've mentioned before, tracks like "Feeling High" will certainly rank highly in my all time greats. The only trouble is I can't find that many good tracks these days.
This is just my opinion on it all, from someone who has been around from day one. Some will agree some won't, but my opinion won't change.
So, is it just your opinion or not?
And yes, it is all down to your preferences in music.
If you were into the oldschool stuff, of course you liked more tracks back then, seeing how the styles have changed over the years. Maybe you only like 2-3 tracks out of 20 new tracks coming out, but obviously it doesn't mean than the other 17-18 are bad, just that you don't like them. I personally have a much higher percentage of satisfaction with upfront Hardcore than you do, and I'm certainly not the only one.
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Edited by - MAtRiCks on 2009/09/21 13:20:27 |
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