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whispering
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Finland
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 Posted - 2010/04/16 : 09:30:52
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
the media have the power to control what people say and think and are very very good at what they do. In a very real way, the media is the biggest hinderance that we have to free speach today.
Ok, from wikipedia:
"A study done by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed that "pit bull type" dogs accounted for the majority of dog related fatalities in the United States between 1979 and 1996, though the study admits some limitations in its data"
Now you post the facts that this is all media bias.
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Ionosphere
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 16:23:34
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
quote:
Originally posted by Ionosphere:
quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
....But i am against people getting penis enlargements shaped as attack dogs.
I shouldn't laugh but that is so true.
yes. but these arent the most agressive looking, these people usually go for the wolves of the dog world.
Yes I know mate. imo they're all w*nkers.
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Lilley
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Australia
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 16:26:23
what you quoted was just a general statement.
however, compare the stats for deaths per year by dogs of the pit bull variety and the deaths per year related to tobacco smoking. The media go nuts when one occurs but not the other. If they were not biased, every time someone died from a smoking related disease or illness, that would make the front page and the calling for ban of smoking would be made daily, which would happen soon after. All they have to do is generate enough hysteria on a certain delicate subject to get the mass audience onside and then push for laws to be made. Often this is done with government backing.
Take speeding as an example. From what I understand it is pretty nuts in england but over here we are talking real life 1984 type happenings. Someone doing more than 20km/h over the limit can have their car confiscated and crushed and they can be jailed. The media labels such reckless actions as child murdering. Doing 5 clicks over WILL KILL YOU! There are speed camera's at every second intersection for our saftey. On certain renowned roads, cops hide in dense bush holding a radar gun wearing camouflage so that we won't die. The media tells us this is all done in the name of Saving Our Lives For Us, despite the victorian state government budgeting for half a billion dollars worth of speeding fines. And some people keep on lapping it up...
It was similar attitudes to this that I noted in kathryn's posts. "It's MEPHEDRONE, it KILLS people" rings of the same emotionally charged hysteria as most media bs. similar things have been said in this thread imo.
kathryn, honestly not trying to attack you, and I did and still do agree with you on the mephedrone issue. I don't have a problem with your opinions, I just see major weaknesses in how you arrive at them - there seems to be giant gaps in your thought process. Emotion clouds logical progression, its a fairly standard trait. The problem comes when policy and laws are decided upon based on emotion, no thorough thinking.
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Edited by - Lilley on 2010/04/16 17:08:06 |
Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 16:33:56
quote:
On certain renowned roads, cops hide in dense bush holding a radar gun wearing camouflage so that we won't die
LOL that was ****ing funny
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kathryn
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,520 posts
Joined: Apr, 2005
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 17:00:07
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
what you quoted was just a general statement.
however, compare the stats for deaths per year by dogs of the pit bull variety and the deaths per year related to tobacco smoking. The media go nuts when one occurs but not the other. If they were not biased, every time someone died from a smoking related disease or illness, that would make the front page and the calling for ban of smoking would be made daily, which would happen soon after. All they have to do is generate enough hysteria on a certain delicate subject to get the mass audience onside and then push for laws to be made. Often this is done with government backing.
Take speeding as an example. From what I understand it is pretty nuts in england but over here we are talking real life 1984 type happenings. Someone doing more than 20km/h over the limit can have their car confiscated and crushed and they can be jailed. The media labels such reckless actions as child murdering. Doing 5 clicks over WILL KILL YOU! There are speed camera's at every second intersection for our saftey. On certain renowned roads, cops hide in dense bush holding a radar gun wearing camouflage so that we won't die. The media tells us this is all done in the name of Saving Our Lives For Us, despite the victorian state government budgeting for half a billion dollars worth of speeding fines. And some people keep on lapping it up...
Take speeding as an example. From what I understand it is pretty nuts in england but over here we are talking real life 1984 type happenings. Someone doing more than 20km/h over the limit can have their car confiscated and crushed and they can be jailed. The media labels such reckless actions as child murdering. Doing 5 clicks over WILL KILL YOU! There are speed camera's at every second intersection for our saftey. On certain renowned roads, cops hide in dense bush holding a radar gun wearing camouflage so that we won't die. The media tells us this is all done in the name of Saving Our Lives For Us, despite the victorian state government budgeting for half a billion dollars worth of speeding fines. And some people keep on lapping it up...
WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT SPEEDING WERE TALKING ABOUT DOGS 
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Wilky
Banned
United Kingdom
6,198 posts
Joined: Mar, 2008
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 17:05:51
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn:
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
what you quoted was just a general statement.
however, compare the stats for deaths per year by dogs of the pit bull variety and the deaths per year related to tobacco smoking. The media go nuts when one occurs but not the other. If they were not biased, every time someone died from a smoking related disease or illness, that would make the front page and the calling for ban of smoking would be made daily, which would happen soon after. All they have to do is generate enough hysteria on a certain delicate subject to get the mass audience onside and then push for laws to be made. Often this is done with government backing.
Take speeding as an example. From what I understand it is pretty nuts in england but over here we are talking real life 1984 type happenings. Someone doing more than 20km/h over the limit can have their car confiscated and crushed and they can be jailed. The media labels such reckless actions as child murdering. Doing 5 clicks over WILL KILL YOU! There are speed camera's at every second intersection for our saftey. On certain renowned roads, cops hide in dense bush holding a radar gun wearing camouflage so that we won't die. The media tells us this is all done in the name of Saving Our Lives For Us, despite the victorian state government budgeting for half a billion dollars worth of speeding fines. And some people keep on lapping it up...
Take speeding as an example. From what I understand it is pretty nuts in england but over here we are talking real life 1984 type happenings. Someone doing more than 20km/h over the limit can have their car confiscated and crushed and they can be jailed. The media labels such reckless actions as child murdering. Doing 5 clicks over WILL KILL YOU! There are speed camera's at every second intersection for our saftey. On certain renowned roads, cops hide in dense bush holding a radar gun wearing camouflage so that we won't die. The media tells us this is all done in the name of Saving Our Lives For Us, despite the victorian state government budgeting for half a billion dollars worth of speeding fines. And some people keep on lapping it up...
WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT SPEEDING WERE TALKING ABOUT DOGS
so let me get this straight. What u are sayin in ur warped daily star reading mind is.. Only pitts and staffies maul kids to death?... Everytime these see a kid they just see red and want to eat a kid?... Tell me i'm understanding you correct?
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Lilley
Advanced Member
Australia
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 17:17:30
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn:
Take speeding as an example. From what I understand it is pretty nuts in england but over here we are talking real life 1984 type happenings. Someone doing more than 20km/h over the limit can have their car confiscated and crushed and they can be jailed. The media labels such reckless actions as child murdering. Doing 5 clicks over WILL KILL YOU! There are speed camera's at every second intersection for our saftey. On certain renowned roads, cops hide in dense bush holding a radar gun wearing camouflage so that we won't die. The media tells us this is all done in the name of Saving Our Lives For Us, despite the victorian state government budgeting for half a billion dollars worth of speeding fines. And some people keep on lapping it up...
WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT SPEEDING WERE TALKING ABOUT DOGS [img]
firstly, i edited the original post.
secondly, the speeding bit WAS a bit of off topic ramble detailing a first hand example of how media can present a subject and bias it to make one side seem unfathomable and by jumping in bed with a government, can greatly influence the law. I thought that was intuitively obvious.
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Edited by - Lilley on 2010/04/16 17:17:58 |
whispering
Moderator
Finland
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Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 17:24:02
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
what you quoted was just a general statement.
however, compare the stats for deaths per year by dogs of the pit bull variety and the deaths per year related to tobacco smoking. The media go nuts when one occurs but not the other. If they were not biased, every time someone died from a smoking related disease or illness, that would make the front page and the calling for ban of smoking would be made daily, which would happen soon after. All they have to do is generate enough hysteria on a certain delicate subject to get the mass audience onside and then push for laws to be made. Often this is done with government backing.
Take speeding as an example. From what I understand it is pretty nuts in england but over here we are talking real life 1984 type happenings. Someone doing more than 20km/h over the limit can have their car confiscated and crushed and they can be jailed. The media labels such reckless actions as child murdering. Doing 5 clicks over WILL KILL YOU! There are speed camera's at every second intersection for our saftey. On certain renowned roads, cops hide in dense bush holding a radar gun wearing camouflage so that we won't die. The media tells us this is all done in the name of Saving Our Lives For Us, despite the victorian state government budgeting for half a billion dollars worth of speeding fines. And some people keep on lapping it up...
It was similar attitudes to this that I noted in kathryn's posts. "It's MEPHEDRONE, it KILLS people" rings of the same emotionally charged hysteria as most media bs. similar things have been said in this thread imo.
kathryn, honestly not trying to attack you, and I did and still do agree with you on the mephedrone issue. I don't have a problem with your opinions, I just see major weaknesses in how you arrive at them - there seems to be giant gaps in your thought process. Emotion clouds logical progression, its a fairly standard trait. The problem comes when policy and laws are decided upon based on emotion, no thorough thinking.
Exactly what tobacco or speeding has to do with pit bulls killing the most people in US on dog attacks? "Rapes are not that bad cause theres wars in the world", your argument is weak to say the least. Also its hilarious that you take tobacco as an example. As A its a personal choice (as opposed to a random dog killing you for no apparent reason), B in Europe theres been a full blown witch hunt against smokers, and were getting restrictions after restrictions. And most of the people against smoking use downright lies to get their utopia.
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Edited by - whispering on 2010/04/16 17:28:26 |
kathryn
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 17:35:42
Daily star sorry not me although this was reported in my local paper today>
Terror in the park!
Published Date: 16 April 2010
A terrified family were trapped inside a playground by a snarling "dangerous" dog.
But the mum's desperate cries for help fell on deaf ears after the police and the council's dog warden service both refused to attend, with each body claiming the other was responsible.
Eventually it was left to a have-a-go-hero councillor, who managed to draw off the un-muzzled Staffordshire Bulldog cross dog to allow the woman and her sobbing toddler children to escape.
Wigan Council has launched an inquiry into the incident.
Coun James Grundy, who ran to the woman's aid, eventually traced the owner to a neighbouring estate and the pair eventually found the dog still roaming the streets.
Coun Grundy said: "I approached the dog and started shouting and whistling to distract its attention and it followed me away.
"I phoned the police but they said they no longer provide a dog warden service and it fell under the council's responsibility. But the council's dog warden service they said that unless the dog was contained they couldn't come and collect it."
A spokesman for the council said: "This has highlighted a grey area as to whose responsibility it was to remove the dog and this resulted in
the councillor putting himself in considerable danger.
"Under the Dangerous Dogs Act, in the case of a dog acting in a way that caused a person to be injured or fear injury, it was the responsibility of the police to remove the animal.
"In the case of a dog acting in a boisterous manner, it was the responsibility of the Dog Warden Service if the incident occurred during working hours."
They have asked for a joint council/police report.
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Lilley
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Australia
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 17:36:28
quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
Exactly what tobacco or speeding has to do with pit bulls killing the most people in US on dog attacks? "Rapes are not that bad cause theres wars in the world", your argument is weak to say the least. Also its hilarious that you take tobacco as an example. As A its a personal choice (as opposed to a random dog killing you for no apparent reason), B in Europe theres been a full blown witch hunt against smokers, and were getting restrictions after restrictions. And most of the people against smoking use downright lies to get their utopia.
Already explained the speeding one. Thought tobacco was even more obvious. Dogs kill people, smoking kills people. Which kills more? Is there an even balance between the two by the media, criteria being frequency of related deaths? If not then you have yourself a bias.
to your A and B
a) being a personal choice hasn't bothered the government previously, why should it now?
b) I'm not in europe am I? there is certainly not a witch hunt over here.
You also seem to be backing me up with your last sentence.
Time for bed now, more playing tomorrow.
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Lilley
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Australia
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 17:41:07
kathryn, while im not really doubting that article, it seems as though they don't know who the owner of the dog is. How can they so easily determine the breed without any proper examination?
But more importantly, given the dog is roaming on its own, I doubt it has had the same raising and attention previously outlined in this thread. Feral cats will act similarly when approached.
ok, really going to bed now
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Dj_triquatra
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 17:58:45
dogs are crap, cant wait till they start taxing the owners here in england :)
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whispering
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Finland
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 18:05:05
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
Thought tobacco was even more obvious. Dogs kill people, smoking kills people.
So because wars kill people, we shouldnt worry about murders?
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
Which kills more? Is there an even balance between the two by the media, criteria being frequency of related deaths? If not then you have yourself a bias.
People dont really care about people dying on cancers. Although we do have cancer researches on the media on a regular basis. Also i can only speak on Finland, but we have here patient secret (direct translation), meaning the hospital cant release ANY info on me to anyone (not even the fact that i am there if i wish so). These are one of the fundamental rights here as a patient. And would be a serious violation that would most likely get the person fired that released the info.
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
a) being a personal choice hasn't bothered the government previously, why should it now?
I wonder that myself. It already has been proved statistically that smokers medical cost is lower to the government then non smokers. I should get tax reductions for going out with a bang 
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
b) I'm not in europe am I? there is certainly not a witch hunt over here.
Lucky you. Smoking banned in restaurants, smoking banned in bars, 10 cig packs banned cause youth can buy them (which was a hilarious law, since it does the exact opposite then intended. A party smoker or a youth has to now buy more). Apartments can ban smoking on their area. If someone can prove my smoking is harmful for them, they can prevent me from smoking in my own balcony. Hospitals banning smoking though not due to law (would you want to be under the knife of a heart surgeon that hasn't smoked in hours?), though that one isnt controlled (which causes all sorts of problems if you know something about how cleanrooms work). Also smoking in front or near various buildings/areas is prohibited (schools, libraries etc). Thats now the ones i remember from the top of my head, the goal is a full ban. Last time they were thinking of banning smoking in streets.
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
You also seem to be backing me up with your last sentence.
I don't understand?
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Edited by - whispering on 2010/04/16 18:09:08 |
Wilky
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 18:22:58
quote:
Originally posted by Dj_triquatra:
dogs are crap, cant wait till they start taxing the owners here in england :)
can see loads of people payin, can u?
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Dj_triquatra
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Posted - 2010/04/16 : 18:33:47
fine by me, just means they getting bummed harder if and when they get caught!
they havent brought it in yet anyway, and may still not!
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