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Thread |
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oxis
Junior Member
Portugal
128 posts
Joined: Apr, 2014
|
 Posted - 2016/10/18 : 22:09:39
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
Who the **** are you? Why do you seem to have an intimate knowledge of my posting proclivities?
i was on the forum for more than 8 seconds
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2016/10/18 : 22:14:34
quote:
Originally posted by arpz:
Re: Gammer post.
I took the gold on that one I think
Gammer: UK Hardcore 2017 - The great **** boi exodus
Me: I thought you already ****ed off UK Hardcore
What's he even getting at? ****ing shit ton of sycophants liking the post mind...
That was quality tbf!
__________________________________
old soundcloud
i gave up producing
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2016/10/18 : 23:26:08
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by trippnface:
that was my bad too lol; but seriously; that harmonix Gate cd is 2 discs; i see Daniel seven AND fracus & darwin right next to hella j core names; how you gunna say they don't collab CDJay!? :p
that's your crew!
( as i buy that cd now; looks FIRE YALL)
Every single HH.com thread longer than a single page gets derailed. That's just the way of the universe. Like gravity and the law of energy conservation. There's no point in complaining about it or even trying to rectify it imo. For the most part, I think people trying to promote their topic should just roll with it and accept the free bumping/interest that accompanies a large thread.
Link to clips of CD? Sounds mildly interesting!
On a side-note (not aimed at you or anyone really -- just cba to make another double post), why does everyone always try to ad hom me? A lot of my posts contain falsifiable premises yet nobody, except CDJay, even bothers trying to argue against the content. I just take that as a tacit acknowledgement that I'm right and nobody wants to hear it. But when CDJay responds, it leads to discussions that are interesting to me. It gets boring when the only counter-argument I hear is some variation on "you're a cnut". I might rip on his music but CDJay is actually one of my favourite users on here.
I literally get shivers of thrill that anyone gives enough of a sh** about things to argue convincingly in the first place. Nothing distresses me more than the whole "BANGING m8!" FB commentary to things that make me wish my brain had sustained enough trauma to no longer notice.
I also believe that I've made my own biases, and restrictions, clearly enough that I can be trusted to segue way without seeming irredeemable.
I do actually reckon there are a fair few bits on the HH album that you'd enjoy; I came close to sending you one the other day and then got all nervy and timid. The thing as a whole will inevitably distress you, but I still think we're on a recovery tip. One day at a time, yea? 
CDJay
__________________________________
Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2016/10/19 : 01:39:27
quote:
Originally posted by CDJay:
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by trippnface:
that was my bad too lol; but seriously; that harmonix Gate cd is 2 discs; i see Daniel seven AND fracus & darwin right next to hella j core names; how you gunna say they don't collab CDJay!? :p
that's your crew!
( as i buy that cd now; looks FIRE YALL)
Every single HH.com thread longer than a single page gets derailed. That's just the way of the universe. Like gravity and the law of energy conservation. There's no point in complaining about it or even trying to rectify it imo. For the most part, I think people trying to promote their topic should just roll with it and accept the free bumping/interest that accompanies a large thread.
Link to clips of CD? Sounds mildly interesting!
On a side-note (not aimed at you or anyone really -- just cba to make another double post), why does everyone always try to ad hom me? A lot of my posts contain falsifiable premises yet nobody, except CDJay, even bothers trying to argue against the content. I just take that as a tacit acknowledgement that I'm right and nobody wants to hear it. But when CDJay responds, it leads to discussions that are interesting to me. It gets boring when the only counter-argument I hear is some variation on "you're a cnut". I might rip on his music but CDJay is actually one of my favourite users on here.
I literally get shivers of thrill that anyone gives enough of a sh** about things to argue convincingly in the first place. Nothing distresses me more than the whole "BANGING m8!" FB commentary to things that make me wish my brain had sustained enough trauma to no longer notice.
I also believe that I've made my own biases, and restrictions, clearly enough that I can be trusted to segue way without seeming irredeemable.
I do actually reckon there are a fair few bits on the HH album that you'd enjoy; I came close to sending you one the other day and then got all nervy and timid. The thing as a whole will inevitably distress you, but I still think we're on a recovery tip. One day at a time, yea?
CDJay
Aw. You should've done it mate!
I have a question for you. You've been working with HU and (previously) RFU for a long time. You were with RFU and HU when the bouncy supersaw-driven sound was dominant in the latter half of last decade (and continued to be a regular feature until about 2013). It was a sound you admit that you didn't enjoy but there were plenty of HU releases and compilations/CDs in that style. Inevitably, that means you've had to work with a lot of music that you probably personally didn't enjoy much. At those points, how did you justify your commitment to keeping hardcore alive? You were essentially fighting to promote an abstract concept. It wasn't the sound you were enamoured with; more of an idea.
To borrow a concept from object-oriented programming, the parent class of hardcore would really have only 2 attributes: a BPM of 170 and 4-to-the-floor drum programming (and that's if we're ignoring old skool completely because otherwise hardcore would have absolutely no meaningful definition at all). Nobody (sane) loves a genre on the basis of those two attributes. It's everything on top that counts. For me, I like happy hardcore stabs, pianos and ALL THE SUPERSAWS on top of my beats. Now that I'm not hearing that stuff, what am I supposed to be fighting for? The idea of hardcore as an abstract concept? Some sentimental crusade? The hope that everything will go full circle and we'll end up back in 2007 again?
Genres themselves have no intrinsic value (artistic or otherwise); only the music derived from those conventions has value -- and obviously that value is subjective (with maybe a smidge of objective value in an existential sense). If the conventions change in a subjectively unfavourable way, doesn't that just destroy the value? Why should we fight to keep something alive if it's not valuable to us anymore? Not the same thing that used to hold subjective value? I just wonder where your seemingly-limitless motivation and resolve come from. It's impressive but also enigmatic.
I'm glad you don't find me offensive. I don't want to dislike the music. I'm still waiting and wanting to be proven wrong and shown that hardcore in 2016 can still send shivers down my spine. You're right. I do care a lot. As I said to someone the other day, I have a thousand better things I could be doing even despite my illness but I'm passionate about this thing we call "hardcore" (whatever the hell it actually is).
More than anything else, I hate this restrictive clustering and the blind following of trends that makes it hard for two big styles to co-exist in the scene. It shouldn't this hard, should it? I think we agreed in another discussion that some producers were effectively, albeit somewhat indirectly, forced to "modernise". The fact that some older producers have refused to return on the basis of being unable to produce the modern sound suggests that the internal/external pressure to conform is immense (I'm not naming names but I've spoken to a couple of mid-tier ex-producers who cited this as a reason for staying away from the modern hardcore scene). Even Scott Brown is now changing his signature sound - one that most people were still feeling and that had almost no best-before date - to fit the TWR cartel's preferences and the scene groupthink. Maybe he prefers it this way. But nobody will convince me that every single producer in the scene drastically changed their style of their own free will or that they all prefer it this way. The fact that big names like Technikore still put out the occasional track that wipe away the last 6 years as if they were nothing makes Gammer's implications that the old UK hardcore was silly seem somewhat ridiculous.
I don't know. Maybe I should just accept that what I love is dead and either abandon the forum like everyone else or stick around for the scraps (been listening to "Tortuga 2016" pretty much on repeat this evening -- new stuff like that is mana from heaven). Maybe I need my own thread where we only post new tracks made in a '00s style. I'm far from the only one who would be interested in something like that.
__________________________________
old soundcloud
i gave up producing
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Edited by - Elliott on 2016/10/19 02:05:30 |
latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
|
Posted - 2016/10/19 : 05:32:04
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by CDJay:
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by trippnface:
that was my bad too lol; but seriously; that harmonix Gate cd is 2 discs; i see Daniel seven AND fracus & darwin right next to hella j core names; how you gunna say they don't collab CDJay!? :p
that's your crew!
( as i buy that cd now; looks FIRE YALL)
Every single HH.com thread longer than a single page gets derailed. That's just the way of the universe. Like gravity and the law of energy conservation. There's no point in complaining about it or even trying to rectify it imo. For the most part, I think people trying to promote their topic should just roll with it and accept the free bumping/interest that accompanies a large thread.
Link to clips of CD? Sounds mildly interesting!
On a side-note (not aimed at you or anyone really -- just cba to make another double post), why does everyone always try to ad hom me? A lot of my posts contain falsifiable premises yet nobody, except CDJay, even bothers trying to argue against the content. I just take that as a tacit acknowledgement that I'm right and nobody wants to hear it. But when CDJay responds, it leads to discussions that are interesting to me. It gets boring when the only counter-argument I hear is some variation on "you're a cnut". I might rip on his music but CDJay is actually one of my favourite users on here.
I literally get shivers of thrill that anyone gives enough of a sh** about things to argue convincingly in the first place. Nothing distresses me more than the whole "BANGING m8!" FB commentary to things that make me wish my brain had sustained enough trauma to no longer notice.
I also believe that I've made my own biases, and restrictions, clearly enough that I can be trusted to segue way without seeming irredeemable.
I do actually reckon there are a fair few bits on the HH album that you'd enjoy; I came close to sending you one the other day and then got all nervy and timid. The thing as a whole will inevitably distress you, but I still think we're on a recovery tip. One day at a time, yea?
CDJay
Aw. You should've done it mate!
I have a question for you. You've been working with HU and (previously) RFU for a long time. You were with RFU and HU when the bouncy supersaw-driven sound was dominant in the latter half of last decade (and continued to be a regular feature until about 2013). It was a sound you admit that you didn't enjoy but there were plenty of HU releases and compilations/CDs in that style. Inevitably, that means you've had to work with a lot of music that you probably personally didn't enjoy much. At those points, how did you justify your commitment to keeping hardcore alive? You were essentially fighting to promote an abstract concept. It wasn't the sound you were enamoured with; more of an idea.
To borrow a concept from object-oriented programming, the parent class of hardcore would really have only 2 attributes: a BPM of 170 and 4-to-the-floor drum programming (and that's if we're ignoring old skool completely because otherwise hardcore would have absolutely no meaningful definition at all). Nobody (sane) loves a genre on the basis of those two attributes. It's everything on top that counts. For me, I like happy hardcore stabs, pianos and ALL THE SUPERSAWS on top of my beats. Now that I'm not hearing that stuff, what am I supposed to be fighting for? The idea of hardcore as an abstract concept? Some sentimental crusade? The hope that everything will go full circle and we'll end up back in 2007 again?
Genres themselves have no intrinsic value (artistic or otherwise); only the music derived from those conventions has value -- and obviously that value is subjective (with maybe a smidge of objective value in an existential sense). If the conventions change in a subjectively unfavourable way, doesn't that just destroy the value? Why should we fight to keep something alive if it's not valuable to us anymore? Not the same thing that used to hold subjective value? I just wonder where your seemingly-limitless motivation and resolve come from. It's impressive but also enigmatic.
I'm glad you don't find me offensive. I don't want to dislike the music. I'm still waiting and wanting to be proven wrong and shown that hardcore in 2016 can still send shivers down my spine. You're right. I do care a lot. As I said to someone the other day, I have a thousand better things I could be doing even despite my illness but I'm passionate about this thing we call "hardcore" (whatever the hell it actually is).
More than anything else, I hate this restrictive clustering and the blind following of trends that makes it hard for two big styles to co-exist in the scene. It shouldn't this hard, should it? I think we agreed in another discussion that some producers were effectively, albeit somewhat indirectly, forced to "modernise". The fact that some older producers have refused to return on the basis of being unable to produce the modern sound suggests that the internal/external pressure to conform is immense (I'm not naming names but I've spoken to a couple of mid-tier ex-producers who cited this as a reason for staying away from the modern hardcore scene). Even Scott Brown is now changing his signature sound - one that most people were still feeling and that had almost no best-before date - to fit the TWR cartel's preferences and the scene groupthink. Maybe he prefers it this way. But nobody will convince me that every single producer in the scene drastically changed their style of their own free will or that they all prefer it this way. The fact that big names like Technikore still put out the occasional track that wipe away the last 6 years as if they were nothing makes Gammer's implications that the old UK hardcore was silly seem somewhat ridiculous.
I don't know. Maybe I should just accept that what I love is dead and either abandon the forum like everyone else or stick around for the scraps (been listening to "Tortuga 2016" pretty much on repeat this evening -- new stuff like that is mana from heaven). Maybe I need my own thread where we only post new tracks made in a '00s style. I'm far from the only one who would be interested in something like that.
There's a question in there???
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
|
Posted - 2016/10/19 : 05:34:03
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
I've watched him grow from massively excited geeky kid, to massive talent, to massive bellend.
Pretty much the Calvin Harris of UK hardcore, the difference being that Calvin Harris at least is now fuckable.
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arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2016/10/19 : 05:35:50
****ing wall of text cunt :D
__________________________________
soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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Edited by - arpz on 2016/10/19 05:36:48 |
latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
|
Posted - 2016/10/19 : 05:43:12
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
quote:
Originally posted by Thumpa:
Elliott you chat so much depressing shit, if there was a way of blocking you on here I would, if you got nothing nice to say about anything close your laptop and go outside and have a walk you miserable ****.
not fully defending him, but you went over the line there. Haven't you read about his illness?
It's alright bro. I haven't fully explained what's wrong and I'd prefer not to but I don't want to let any illness, no matter how serious, define who I am. :)
I'd still be posting the exact same shit if I was healthy anyway!
Edit: ****in typos in every post!
That's good to know. As we all mostly agreed on the Squad-E thread just because something is wrong with you doesn't give you a free pass to be a cunt.
But it is amusing seeing Thumpa criticizing someone for being negative when he's had many moments of being an outright prick on this site.
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arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2016/10/19 : 06:04:08
Dougal talks about this issue in 2003, this little segment sounds so cynical, makes me laugh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z3c7fGiDU2c#t=469
But definitely there's the idea of being in control of where the sound goes but it's not quite at illuminati levels...
__________________________________
soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
|
Posted - 2016/10/19 : 07:52:31
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
quote:
Originally posted by Thumpa:
Elliott you chat so much depressing shit, if there was a way of blocking you on here I would, if you got nothing nice to say about anything close your laptop and go outside and have a walk you miserable ****.
not fully defending him, but you went over the line there. Haven't you read about his illness?
It's alright bro. I haven't fully explained what's wrong and I'd prefer not to but I don't want to let any illness, no matter how serious, define who I am. :)
I'd still be posting the exact same shit if I was healthy anyway!
Edit: ****in typos in every post!
That's good to know. As we all mostly agreed on the Squad-E thread just because something is wrong with you doesn't give you a free pass to be a cunt.
But it is amusing seeing Thumpa criticizing someone for being negative when he's had many moments of being an outright prick on this site.
I don't remember being present at this meeting!
In the post Thumpa quoted, I wasn't even being a ****. He just had a minor meltdown for some reason. I think he needs a PR manager.
I will say that what's wrong with me is potentially life-threatening. And I still don't melt about someone doing a bit of complaining on a forum. In fact, I find it annoying that this is his idea of a big problem. Seriously, Thumpa, mate, sort your life out. We can trade any time you like.
__________________________________
old soundcloud
i gave up producing
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Edited by - Elliott on 2016/10/19 07:58:01 |
Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
|
Posted - 2016/10/19 : 13:05:46
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
what am I supposed to be fighting for?
Your entitlement to gather in large groups in a celebratory manner!
/
looking forward to hearing/purchasing the end product :)
I'd send something in, but I'm still using pots, washboards and broken twigs to make my hardcore.
__________________________________
Triquatra/Bee Trax/Cuttlefish
http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk/ - http://CLSM.net -
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2016/10/19 13:08:36 |
trippnface
Advanced Member
United States
1,654 posts
Joined: Jan, 2010
|
Posted - 2016/10/19 : 15:19:23
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by trippnface:
that was my bad too lol; but seriously; that harmonix Gate cd is 2 discs; i see Daniel seven AND fracus & darwin right next to hella j core names; how you gunna say they don't collab CDJay!? :p
that's your crew!
( as i buy that cd now; looks FIRE YALL)
Every single HH.com thread longer than a single page gets derailed. That's just the way of the universe. Like gravity and the law of energy conservation. There's no point in complaining about it or even trying to rectify it imo. For the most part, I think people trying to promote their topic should just roll with it and accept the free bumping/interest that accompanies a large thread.
Link to clips of CD? Sounds mildly interesting!
On a side-note (not aimed at you or anyone really -- just cba to make another double post), why does everyone always try to ad hom me? A lot of my posts contain falsifiable premises yet nobody, except CDJay, even bothers trying to argue against the content. I just take that as a tacit acknowledgement that I'm right and nobody wants to hear it. But when CDJay responds, it leads to discussions that are interesting to me. It gets boring when the only counter-argument I hear is some variation on "you're a cnut". I might rip on his music but CDJay is actually one of my favourite users on here.
http://hxrecords.bandcamp.com/releases
__________________________________
(A)☮(E)
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2016/10/19 : 15:31:34
^Thanks mate.
quote:
Originally posted by Triquatra:
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
what am I supposed to be fighting for?
Your entitlement to gather in large groups in a celebratory manner!
Ha. Subtle laugh.
__________________________________
old soundcloud
i gave up producing
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2016/10/19 : 15:33:06
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by CDJay:
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
quote:
Originally posted by trippnface:
that was my bad too lol; but seriously; that harmonix Gate cd is 2 discs; i see Daniel seven AND fracus & darwin right next to hella j core names; how you gunna say they don't collab CDJay!? :p
that's your crew!
( as i buy that cd now; looks FIRE YALL)
Every single HH.com thread longer than a single page gets derailed. That's just the way of the universe. Like gravity and the law of energy conservation. There's no point in complaining about it or even trying to rectify it imo. For the most part, I think people trying to promote their topic should just roll with it and accept the free bumping/interest that accompanies a large thread.
Link to clips of CD? Sounds mildly interesting!
On a side-note (not aimed at you or anyone really -- just cba to make another double post), why does everyone always try to ad hom me? A lot of my posts contain falsifiable premises yet nobody, except CDJay, even bothers trying to argue against the content. I just take that as a tacit acknowledgement that I'm right and nobody wants to hear it. But when CDJay responds, it leads to discussions that are interesting to me. It gets boring when the only counter-argument I hear is some variation on "you're a cnut". I might rip on his music but CDJay is actually one of my favourite users on here.
I literally get shivers of thrill that anyone gives enough of a sh** about things to argue convincingly in the first place. Nothing distresses me more than the whole "BANGING m8!" FB commentary to things that make me wish my brain had sustained enough trauma to no longer notice.
I also believe that I've made my own biases, and restrictions, clearly enough that I can be trusted to segue way without seeming irredeemable.
I do actually reckon there are a fair few bits on the HH album that you'd enjoy; I came close to sending you one the other day and then got all nervy and timid. The thing as a whole will inevitably distress you, but I still think we're on a recovery tip. One day at a time, yea?
CDJay
Aw. You should've done it mate!
I have a question for you. You've been working with HU and (previously) RFU for a long time. You were with RFU and HU when the bouncy supersaw-driven sound was dominant in the latter half of last decade (and continued to be a regular feature until about 2013). It was a sound you admit that you didn't enjoy but there were plenty of HU releases and compilations/CDs in that style. Inevitably, that means you've had to work with a lot of music that you probably personally didn't enjoy much. At those points, how did you justify your commitment to keeping hardcore alive? You were essentially fighting to promote an abstract concept. It wasn't the sound you were enamoured with; more of an idea.
To borrow a concept from object-oriented programming, the parent class of hardcore would really have only 2 attributes: a BPM of 170 and 4-to-the-floor drum programming (and that's if we're ignoring old skool completely because otherwise hardcore would have absolutely no meaningful definition at all). Nobody (sane) loves a genre on the basis of those two attributes. It's everything on top that counts. For me, I like happy hardcore stabs, pianos and ALL THE SUPERSAWS on top of my beats. Now that I'm not hearing that stuff, what am I supposed to be fighting for? The idea of hardcore as an abstract concept? Some sentimental crusade? The hope that everything will go full circle and we'll end up back in 2007 again?
Genres themselves have no intrinsic value (artistic or otherwise); only the music derived from those conventions has value -- and obviously that value is subjective (with maybe a smidge of objective value in an existential sense). If the conventions change in a subjectively unfavourable way, doesn't that just destroy the value? Why should we fight to keep something alive if it's not valuable to us anymore? Not the same thing that used to hold subjective value? I just wonder where your seemingly-limitless motivation and resolve come from. It's impressive but also enigmatic.
I'm glad you don't find me offensive. I don't want to dislike the music. I'm still waiting and wanting to be proven wrong and shown that hardcore in 2016 can still send shivers down my spine. You're right. I do care a lot. As I said to someone the other day, I have a thousand better things I could be doing even despite my illness but I'm passionate about this thing we call "hardcore" (whatever the hell it actually is).
More than anything else, I hate this restrictive clustering and the blind following of trends that makes it hard for two big styles to co-exist in the scene. It shouldn't this hard, should it? I think we agreed in another discussion that some producers were effectively, albeit somewhat indirectly, forced to "modernise". The fact that some older producers have refused to return on the basis of being unable to produce the modern sound suggests that the internal/external pressure to conform is immense (I'm not naming names but I've spoken to a couple of mid-tier ex-producers who cited this as a reason for staying away from the modern hardcore scene). Even Scott Brown is now changing his signature sound - one that most people were still feeling and that had almost no best-before date - to fit the TWR cartel's preferences and the scene groupthink. Maybe he prefers it this way. But nobody will convince me that every single producer in the scene drastically changed their style of their own free will or that they all prefer it this way. The fact that big names like Technikore still put out the occasional track that wipe away the last 6 years as if they were nothing makes Gammer's implications that the old UK hardcore was silly seem somewhat ridiculous.
I don't know. Maybe I should just accept that what I love is dead and either abandon the forum like everyone else or stick around for the scraps (been listening to "Tortuga 2016" pretty much on repeat this evening -- new stuff like that is mana from heaven). Maybe I need my own thread where we only post new tracks made in a '00s style. I'm far from the only one who would be interested in something like that.
There's a question in there???
Several, mate. They can be found using these things called question marks.
__________________________________
old soundcloud
i gave up producing
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2016/10/25 : 02:29:16
I was lucky enough to get an exclusive listen to an early version of F&D's disc for the album. In fact, I've had it on repeat all evening.
I'm not allowed to say much about it but I will say that I was pleasantly surprised. The HU guys have really gone to a lot of effort to include a broad spectrum of music and satisfy everyone. I might be pushing it here but I'll just mention that some of the music they've managed to license is impressive.
Don't write this off before you've heard it. Even I enjoyed it and that's a seal of approval right there. ;)
I think if any modern hardcore compilation stands a chance of blowing up and actually doing well, it's this one.
Big up CDJay and everyone involved.
__________________________________
old soundcloud
i gave up producing
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Edited by - Elliott on 2016/10/25 03:05:51 |
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HELP! What are we overlooking (HH album)
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