Vibes & Hattrix with new Ham-starter project : page: 9

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Vibes & Hattrix with new Ham-starter project

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Owen P
Average Member

United Kingdom
154 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005

Posted - 2017/06/29 : 12:13:50

HU may well have a big audience, but it's not the right audience for the kind of music we're doing. And I very much doubt they have the scale of budgets to cover the basic costs of what we're planning. We'd all be working at a huge loss. Of course we've thought about that. Of course we've spoken to labels. There's nothing in it for them and it puts a load of restrictions on us that would mean watering down the music. Nobody is up for that.

Samination, we haven't taken any music away from you. For goodness sake, it's not even your style. There are plenty of outlets catering to the low priced and free end of the market. What we're doing has literally zero effect on you. And what we're doing isn't feasible without this model. Do you think that just because you can't have something that nobody else should be allowed to have it? Surely you're more mature than that?

There's another point I want to make, actually. I think low priced music is harmful to the scene. I don't think it's a coincidence that the devaluation of music correlates with the decline of "the scene". The less reward there is for the music makers, generally the less resources they're able to devote to their music. Also, eventually niche artists have to give up and move on as there's no infrastructure to support them even at minimum-wage level. This general downward trend ends in a place where most music is hastily-made, low budget, disposable garbage. Of course not all music that's hastily made or low budget is garbage, but I'm talking about an overall trend.

Vibes' back catalogue still stands strong for a lot of people. They say they don't understand why people don't make them like they used to. Our project is for that crowd. They've been left out in the cold for many years, we're doing something about it. It's not for everybody, it's not supposed to be.

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Owen P
Average Member

United Kingdom
154 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005

Posted - 2017/06/29 : 12:18:14

quote:
Originally posted by GrahamC:

quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
I've also wondered about the reasoning behind this. I presume it's about being able to push away any other kinds of work, to work full-time on this project without worrying about income for the months they are working on it.

I could agree with that but Owen has said they are both flush with cash and also that Vibes is out every weekend DJing so I don't think that's the reason...

Goodness, no. I never said "flush with cash", but we're certainly doing pretty well. The money that I'll get from this project won't even cover my rent, let alone food, travel, and all the expenses associated with the production and delivery of the album. We could of course scale everything down and make the whole thing on a laptop with free software, but that would totally ruin the project and I wouldn't be up for it at all. It's all or nothing, we're not willing to compromise on the quality of the music. The financial reward is meagre, so the artistic reward must be supreme. Them's the rules!

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trippnface
Advanced Member

United States
1,654 posts
Joined: Jan, 2010

Posted - 2017/06/29 : 15:05:42

everyone buthurtt they not getting cheese stomp; i'm just like BREAKS BREAKS BREAKS!

seriously though; this is not a bad thing or some huge ordeal. atleast they are trying to provide us with real hardcore music that doesnt suck... unlike a vast majoirty of the " hardcore" scene; that do nothing for us and havent for years. I am totally down to throw some money at these guys for QUALITY tracks that just simply do no get produced anymore. the amount of " hardcore" that has nothing to do with hardcore is ****ing embarassing nowadays. cost seems intensive; but I probably spend that driving to a party and ticket and everything else for a night where i am probably going to hear loads of really shitty modern hardcore. rather drop a stack or 2 on this and have tracks that keep me high for another 10 plus years...

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Mickey Init
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
764 posts
Joined: Oct, 2012

Posted - 2017/06/29 : 17:13:39

quote:
Originally posted by Owen P:

quote:
Originally posted by Mickey Init:
This album would be a more a novelty thing for me than a 'OMG I need dis' album.

Then, with respect, we've successfully screened you out. If you're not on the OMG list then you probably wouldn't be happy with the purchase. It's better for everyone if we only sell to those for who this is a fantastic deal. That's not everyone, we knew that going in.

For those that are 'on the OMG list', we're going to deliver something beyond what I can convey here in words. Shane and I ourselves are 'on the OMG list', and we'll be the hardest bods to satisfy.

I'm back in

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"Like bread to marmalade... Vinylgroover with the crossfade!" - MC Freestyle

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Mad Max
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
1,017 posts
Joined: Dec, 2005

281 hardcore releases

Posted - 2017/06/29 : 17:36:40

Thread gold on sooooo many levels.

I would possibly be up for spliting the costs.

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Elipton
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013

Posted - 2017/06/29 : 18:12:31

Thanks for opening up about it all. I respect hearing it from your side

quote:
Originally posted by Owen P:

quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
Since you're kindly interacting with us, Owen, could I ask a question?

Do you think this type of mega-money project is good for the Hardcore 'scene' in the long run?

You can ask me whatever you want, I'm open.

So is it good for the scene?

I could argue yes, but I could also argue no. There are pros and cons, but ultimately time will tell. Let me give you some more detail on my thoughts, though, as this is a very important question.

#1 Despite the fear mongering, I don't think we're gonna see many of these projects in the future. They're not big money spinners, they're difficult to organise, not many artists could draw in enough numbers to make it worthwhile, it puts a lot of pressure on the artist as their whole reputation is at stake.

In DJ Ham's case, he was the pioneer. I can't speak on his behalf, of course, but I get the impression he didn't realise how much work would be involved. It was just something he wanted to try out. I think to a point he was figuring it all out as he went along (in a good way).

I spoke to Ham around the time of his release and I asked him if he knew of other artists who'd follow suit. He told me nobody he knew wanted to do it. It was only after that conversation that it occurred to me that there was an opportunity for me and Shane. But when I say opportunity...... You have to understand I mean in a musical sense. It's not as great a business opportunity as it may appear from the outside.

For this reason, I don't think it'll make much much difference.

#2 The exclusivity changes the rules significantly. Assuming the integrity is there, it means better music. Listening to Ham's album, you can tell a lot of love went into it. Some of those piano lines are absolutely sublime. There's a slower track on there that sounds like it would smash up the airwaves if he'd released it commercially instead of privately. And there are some *ahem* "sound sources" *cough* on there that you'd never get away with going through the normal channels.

This is what really turned me on to the idea, the creative freedom. Shane and I know full well and are open about the fact that his best stuff was with Wishdokta, back when it was predominantly sample-based music. And my proudest tracks are the ones I spent loads of time on. For example, I put a solid month into JUST the drums on the Luna-C Piano Confusion Hattrixx remix. I could actually achieve that kind of thing much quicker now, but my point is: the freedom to spend the necessary time on what's important to me as an artist is a rare luxury. I'm glad I did it that way because 10 years later I still enjoy the remix, but I wish I'd had more opportunities like that in the last 10 years.

In my view, any opportunity for an artist to produce music on their own terms is a great thing. It means the music can be more special. I mean..... If I really wanted to, I could throw an album together in a day. That's if there was no integrity and no quality control. I could even do an average quality album in a month. The reason we're giving ourselves until December to deliver is because we're going all out. We want to produce a master piece. That's why I'm so hypey... We've wanted to do something in this style for 12+ years but not had the opportunity until right now. We've really thought deeply about how it needs to be done to be done right and I've tested some wild writing/production techniques that are unlike anything anyone else can/would offer. The music is going to be inconceivably good (IF you're into that stuff).

#3 The music itself isn't just for the backers, really. If you're more the casual type, then our premium priced offer isn't for you. However, you'll still hear the music on radio shows, in sets, and at raves (as I said, Vibes still plays out every weekend). It's not like you'll never get to hear it. If you're into this stuff, you'll be glad it was made when you hear it even though you've paid nothing towards it. That's definitely a positive that has wider benefits: Vibes will be playing quality new material alongside his classics from the 90s.

#4 What even IS "the scene"? I said to Samination privately that our release has nothing to do with "the scene", because there is no 'scene' for the type of music we're doing. This isn't a UK Hardcore album. This is a classic DJ Vibes '93/'94/'95 style album, predominantly breakbeats, pads, stabs, pianos, huge bass, etc. Samination has said he'd class that as jungle, which is fair. I disagree, but it's a valid point of view.

What we're doing wouldn't have been a contribution to any scene if we were to put it out on general release - and more to the point, that wouldn't have been a viable option in any case. If we were making an album 'for the scene', we'd have to make it fit, to some extent. And we just wouldn't have the freedom/time/budget to go all out in the way that we're doing with this project. This is part of the reason we're providing regular video content as part of the package - you'll be shocked when you see how deep we're going for this. It's not something that would be feasible without a reasonable budget. I don't see a way "the scene" could support that. If someone can show me a way, I'll be on the case immediately...

It's incredibly niche music, let's not pretend to be pop stars. We're not contributing much to the scene by doing this, but we're also certainly not taking anything away from the scene. We're not withholding anything that we'd otherwise give. Musicians don't get into music for the money, that would be stupid. I make quite decent money with my studio business, but as far as being an artist goes, the motivation is always the art itself.

#5 It's up to the backers whether or not the project goes ahead. In this case and in DJ Ham's case there were plenty of people who are up for it. Ultimately, people vote with their wallets. And most of the people we've had write to us have said they're more than happy with the offer. I don't think it's the general populace of 'the scene' that were appealing to. My assumption with the DJ Vibes following is that it's mostly people who are a bit older now, they've settled down, they've bought their house, had their kids. They have no interest whatsoever in the vast majority of modern music, rather they long for something along the lines of what they enjoyed at the big raves back in the day. And they have enough disposable income that the price we're asking is really not that big of a deal. Is it wrong to cater to that crowd? I don't think so. Nobody else is catering to them, and they're happy that we finally are. It's win-win.

I could probably sit here and write for hours but you get the idea. Mostly I think it's positive or insignificant. Perhaps if all the main artists were holding their fresh new music ransom that would be problematic, but that's not the case here. The two projects in question (ours and Ham's) wouldn't have been possible at all without this model. Not as far as I can tell, anyway. I'd love to be proved wrong!