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Vladel
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,514 posts
Joined: Feb, 2008
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 Posted - 2017/06/20 : 07:24:26
Hardcore is signing its own death warrant this way but I do like music as long as it is reasonably priced. The 10 for 100 model is far from reasonable but saying that, tracks do exist that might be worth ?10 but they are few and far between. (The Darwin toy town and Al storm heart of gold for example).
Whereas a blind purchase is never going to work.
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remain calm do not be alarmed do not attempt to leave the dancefloor
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Rodz90
Average Member
United Kingdom
208 posts
Joined: Sep, 2012
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Posted - 2017/06/20 : 07:28:37
quote:
Originally posted by CDJay:
Much like when people suggest line-ups for albums, there's a massive difference between likely reality and hopeful expectation.
Crowd funding is faith based, and on my own end i should be reading carefully, but it's all about likely results. Current projects don't worry me, but the genre has a serious problem with inactive top tier people doing nothing; trading legacy over action. It's alarming what may come next.
I figure we came up with a working model for everyone, but it was largely rejected by the active scene in 2016, and utterly rejected end of 2016. The wider current industry wants us gone.
So I'm stuck in a weird middle ground where i think we're one of the few credible delivery people, trying to build a fair sustainable model, whilst either side there is what there is.
I'm worried. You should be too.
CDJay
You guys are the only ones who are leading this scene with any innovation. I simply don't get how the people who are observing and not contributing anymore, get any kind of a say about what happens. If they are no longer making music, and not helping to push the genre forward, then why would you listen to anything they have to say? Keep driving innovation and being the best company the hardcore scene has had for a very long time. Because you guys are the heroes that hardcore deserves, but not the ones the top tier thinks it needs right now. So they'll hunt you. Because you can take it. Because you're not there hero. - The Dark Knight Quote ;)
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trippnface
Advanced Member
United States
1,654 posts
Joined: Jan, 2010
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Posted - 2017/06/20 : 17:01:03
I wonder if there is enough money to throw at Gammer to make him stop sucking?
that would make me seriously happy. forcing him to make music he hates that I love. that sounds amazing.
but seriously..
sy & Unknown?
more brisk & ham?
Modulate actually make hardcore again; or maybe hella good tracks we never even were able to aquire.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,072 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2017/06/20 : 17:12:22
I would pay him to STOP complaining about us complaining :P
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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robertybob
Senior Member
United Kingdom
328 posts
Joined: Jul, 2005
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Posted - 2017/06/20 : 20:46:30
Ah Mike Modulate, I wonder what he's up to these days!
If Vagabond wanted to make stuff like he did before he got involved with Candy Crush Music, that's the only time I would consider backing an expensive Ham Starter project.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,072 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2017/06/20 : 21:15:21
Modulate has always been Around. Does Stonebank ring a bell?
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Thumpa
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,600 posts
Joined: Feb, 2009
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Posted - 2017/06/20 : 22:24:27
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
My issue is that exclusivity doesn't serve the scene. It won't help reach new fans or add to the amount of content available publicly via streaming. You have amazing talents putting in for a quick guaranteed buck, and it's selfish. Let me say again, it's selfish.
You know you have at least 100 core fans. You know you're going to sell 100, and if you don't and you only sell 75, that's still thousands in the bank. I personally think that people doing this should be chased off by a mob with pitchforks. I sympathize with Ham since I can only assume he's out on his ass after RAM was bought by Sony BMI. I hoped that was a one-off, but if more people are doing it, there's an issue at hand.
If Styles or Gammer do this for a quick buck and have nothing available to stream or buy conventionally, the industry in Hardcore will have a noose around it's neck. Releases are the blood that drives the genre and keeps it existing, the moment you close off that blood to just a few people, the fringe fans are the first we'll lose. Then we'll lose conventional fans, then we'll be left with just the 'real deep Hardcore family' who will be in their hundreds. That's not the way things should be. It might work for artists, and it might keep working after the genre ends up like that, but for fans like us, it'll be shit.
If this platform for selling beings the norm, kiss your genre goodbye. You can't have a genre survive on 100 or even 1000 fans.
Ham has just had a release on Ram, why would he be worried about anything? I think he's still part of Ram. Have you heard different?
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2017/06/20 : 23:08:21
quote:
Originally posted by Thumpa:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
My issue is that exclusivity doesn't serve the scene. It won't help reach new fans or add to the amount of content available publicly via streaming. You have amazing talents putting in for a quick guaranteed buck, and it's selfish. Let me say again, it's selfish.
You know you have at least 100 core fans. You know you're going to sell 100, and if you don't and you only sell 75, that's still thousands in the bank. I personally think that people doing this should be chased off by a mob with pitchforks. I sympathize with Ham since I can only assume he's out on his ass after RAM was bought by Sony BMI. I hoped that was a one-off, but if more people are doing it, there's an issue at hand.
If Styles or Gammer do this for a quick buck and have nothing available to stream or buy conventionally, the industry in Hardcore will have a noose around it's neck. Releases are the blood that drives the genre and keeps it existing, the moment you close off that blood to just a few people, the fringe fans are the first we'll lose. Then we'll lose conventional fans, then we'll be left with just the 'real deep Hardcore family' who will be in their hundreds. That's not the way things should be. It might work for artists, and it might keep working after the genre ends up like that, but for fans like us, it'll be shit.
If this platform for selling beings the norm, kiss your genre goodbye. You can't have a genre survive on 100 or even 1000 fans.
Ham has just had a release on Ram, why would he be worried about anything? I think he's still part of Ram. Have you heard different?
RAM financial affairs were in a shit state when BMI stepped in to undercut the losses. The shortfall RAM was experiencing in failing to meet their liabilities would suggest that to sell to Sony was a last ditch effort to continue. Usually, this doesn't play well for "fringe" resident producers.
But it's aside the point if of my post really..
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9oh9
Junior Member
United Kingdom
119 posts
Joined: Jun, 2017
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Posted - 2017/06/21 : 19:36:15
Tbh I'm a bit sorry I missed out on the Ham album; at the time it seemed like too much, but looking back I think it was probably worth it given that it included the remix stems. I don't think it's a good model for those just interested in the single tracks though, or "the scene" in general, it just means fewer people have access to the music making things even smaller and more insular. It'll suck for collectors in a few years time too, who might hear a track on a mix and then have absolutely no chance getting hold of it.
Having said that, there are a few artists I'd back for a project like this; possibly CLSM, and if there were an old-style Force & Styles album I'd definitely be chucking money at it ;-) If Hixxy did a bundle of the older RBC back-cat/unreleased stuff I'd give that serious thought too!
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robertybob
Senior Member
United Kingdom
328 posts
Joined: Jul, 2005
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Posted - 2017/06/21 : 20:03:13
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
Modulate has always been Around. Does Stonebank ring a bell?
I don't like Stonebank's stuff :(
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Vladel
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,514 posts
Joined: Feb, 2008
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Posted - 2017/06/21 : 21:02:03
quote:
Originally posted by 9oh9:
Tbh I'm a bit sorry I missed out on the Ham album; at the time it seemed like too much, but looking back I think it was probably worth it given that it included the remix stems. I don't think it's a good model for those just interested in the single tracks though, or "the scene" in general, it just means fewer people have access to the music making things even smaller and more insular. It'll suck for collectors in a few years time too, who might hear a track on a mix and then have absolutely no chance getting hold of it.
Having said that, there are a few artists I'd back for a project like this; possibly CLSM, and if there were an old-style Force & Styles album I'd definitely be chucking money at it ;-) If Hixxy did a bundle of the older RBC back-cat/unreleased stuff I'd give that serious thought too!
Three years down the line, people looking for tracks will go to YouTube etc and when they are there (if not reasonably purchasable) people will rip them and who's fault is it? You could say the uploader if he guy who rips it but the question is, would it happen if the track could be bought for a reasonable price? It's not like the prodvucer has to make another one, the work is already done.
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remain calm do not be alarmed do not attempt to leave the dancefloor
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ViolonC
Average Member
Germany
243 posts
Joined: Sep, 2014
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Posted - 2017/06/21 : 23:32:17
Anything exclusive will hurt an already small scene in the long run. The whole model just works for former established artists anyway. So this will not reach or create new raver and ultimately be irrelevant for the genre. While one can be critical on principles it will sort out itself. The probably worst outcome might be that the files leak after a while and ravers will tear up each other over it.
I like the approach of having a limited edition physical release LP/EP and once that's gone (and only then) the thing goes up for digital release. I think this has the best of both worlds. There is infrastructure like HU and Bandcamp that can handle that very well.
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https://soundcloud.com/violonc
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Thumpa
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,600 posts
Joined: Feb, 2009
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Posted - 2017/06/22 : 11:56:20
The Ham one I knew would be good as I've always followed his sound and his music comes across with such warmth and depth, I bought it just for the tracks and I've listened to the album a few times, 100% worth the ?25 I chucked in.
I can't think of anyone else I would pay that money for, everything else pre 2000 I've got on vinyl and everything post 2000 I've got on USB save for a few tracks that never got released, new music wise there's no one that could make a varied album like Ham did.
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sebastianNL
New Member
Netherlands
44 posts
Joined: Jun, 2016
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Posted - 2017/06/22 : 17:11:32
I would definitely pay a similar amount or more for a new Sy & Unknown album (their 2003-2012 sound that is). Of course I just would consider this kind of money just for an artist who does not produce anymore. With Ham I just wanted the project to succeed so hopefully Ham would stay producing hardcore on some level. That's one of the reasons I backed it.
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Captain Triceps
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,184 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
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Posted - 2017/06/22 : 18:03:58
quote:
Originally posted by sebastianNL:
I would definitely pay a similar amount or more for a new Sy & Unknown album (their 2003-2012 sound that is). Of course I just would consider this kind of money just for an artist who does not produce anymore. With Ham I just wanted the project to succeed so hopefully Ham would stay producing hardcore on some level. That's one of the reasons I backed it.
He has a new record coming out on Kniteforce mate.
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Some of my remixes, original tracks and mixes here:
https://soundcloud.com/bradders-tracks-and-remix
https://soundcloud.com/bradders1982
https://soundcloud.com/paulbradley1982
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The Ham Starter Project Conundrum
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