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SparkzMusic
Senior Member
Zimbabwe
334 posts
Joined: Apr, 2011
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 Posted - 2015/03/25 : 19:17:24
"especially if it is public and not a private message, because then the subject is either forced"
Ignoring anything "negative" is the key here. What if someone worked in a shop and had a customer who was completely rude and harsh? They have to just take it on the chin as they are being paid for it.
Same thing with top tier producers. They are getting paid, effectively the fans who like their work are paying their wages. We have all heard top tier producers saying about how hardcore music is their job and pays all the bills/the mortgage. So if that's the case, it should be treated like a job... people in employment have good days, bad days and "why the f**k do I bother?" days. Yet smile and carry on with the thought of payday at the end of the month.
Private messages sent to top tier artists with constructive criticism go 1 of 2 ways. Either they ignore it and never reply or they will take a certain tone pretty much saying "I couldn't care less, it's my job, other people like it and they pay my wages so I will continue to produce this way"
Tri - Just checked the saved screenies and yep that's the amount quoted.
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Edited by - SparkzMusic on 2015/03/25 19:22:13 |
latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 19:18:00
quote:
Originally posted by wong:
quote:
Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
I had that myself once before. Not going to name names but it was over a free album a few years ago. I was asking a top tier artist about prices to do a remix for a free album.
that's gotta be breeze .....?
you asked this person to remix the track for you? might be squad-e. no one, not even a few years ago, was rushing to breeze for a remix.
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 19:25:44
quote:
Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
"especially if it is public and not a private message, because then the subject is either forced"
Ignoring anything "negative" is the key here. What if someone worked in a shop and had a customer who was completely rude and harsh? They have to just take it on the chin as they are being paid for it.
Same thing with top tier producers. They are getting paid, effectively the fans who like their work are paying their wages. We have all heard top tier producers saying about how hardcore music is their job and pays all the bills/the mortgage. So if that's the case, it should be treated like a job... people in employment have good days, bad days and "why the f**k do I bother?" days. Yet smile and carry on with the thought of payday at the end of the month.
Private messages sent to top tier artists with constructive criticism go 1 of 2 ways. Either they ignore it and never reply or they will take a certain tone pretty much saying "I couldn't care less, it's my job, other people like it and they pay my wages so I will continue to produce this way"
Tri - Just checked the saved screenies and yep that's the amount quoted.
Yeah, I completely agree with this. I also tend to make a division between paid and unpaid artists. I would never leave harsh, non-constructive criticism on a free track but when someone is asking you to pay for something or is being paid for something, you have much more room to criticise it. When there's money involved, the music is a product and, just like any other product, you have the right to say it's shit.
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old soundcloud
i gave up producing
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Edited by - Elliott on 2015/03/25 19:28:01 |
wong
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,991 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 19:35:27
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
quote:
Originally posted by wong:
quote:
Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
I had that myself once before. Not going to name names but it was over a free album a few years ago. I was asking a top tier artist about prices to do a remix for a free album.
that's gotta be breeze .....?
you asked this person to remix the track for you? might be squad-e. no one, not even a few years ago, was rushing to breeze for a remix.
i just remember reading somewhere a few years ago that breeze was asking 500 quid to do a remix, whether it was related to what sparkz is talking about or not i really can't remember
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intensify the treatment
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Bee-Trax
New Member
United Kingdom
55 posts
Joined: Jun, 2014
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 19:53:53
I think he should consider making some Bonkers 7 styled music. Then nobody could complain. I think everyone here would agree with me.
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Bonkers 7 UFO/Hixxy Hardcore?
https://soundcloud.com/bee-trax
unz clack unz clack unz clack
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oxis
Junior Member
Portugal
128 posts
Joined: Apr, 2014
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 20:20:03
quote:
Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
"especially if it is public and not a private message, because then the subject is either forced"
Ignoring anything "negative" is the key here. What if someone worked in a shop and had a customer who was completely rude and harsh? They have to just take it on the chin as they are being paid for it.
Same thing with top tier producers. They are getting paid, effectively the fans who like their work are paying their wages. We have all heard top tier producers saying about how hardcore music is their job and pays all the bills/the mortgage. So if that's the case, it should be treated like a job... people in employment have good days, bad days and "why the f**k do I bother?" days. Yet smile and carry on with the thought of payday at the end of the month.
i don't think that analogy is appropriate, as there are many elements that are different between an everyday shop and an artist's catalog. the objectivity of the product's quality is different due to the fact that it can be evaluated by the item's utility when it comes to a shop, and that it cannot be evaluated at all when it comes to music because of different tastes. authority is also something that is different, some artists earn their money just freelancing. considering that, i'm not going to use that same analogy to continue the argument.
quote:
Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
Ignoring anything "negative" is the key here. What if someone worked in a shop and had a customer who was completely rude and harsh? They have to just take it on the chin as they are being paid for it.
that doesn't give the customer the right to talk crap though lel. just because Obama has a bulletproof car doesn't give me the right to shoot it with a gun. it can have consequences:
assuming we are talking about art, not everyone is capable of completely ignoring criticism, even if sounds trivial to objective people and people who think mostly rationally. it is not a matter of being a "cry baby", it is a matter of doing something for the people who might like your work, something you are proud of, and have one guy who doesn't like it shout at you that it is awful. you have no means of knowing whether that guy's opinion is valuable or not, so the rational reaction is to feel bad.
i was at a panel with two writers recently actually, and when they were asked about how they take criticism their answer was that they didn't, simply because they did not read it anymore due to how awful and unproductive it made them feel. success raises one's ego really high, and the power of other people's opinions is destructive and often underestimated by a lot of people. i myself find it hard to comprehend this, as i always shrugged off harsh criticism from family and friends, but almost every artist i have met says the same thing and so i am convinced that they are right.
criticism might hurt or not, but the consequences of hurting can reflect on the artist's work output and quality, so it is best to respect his work (criticising his attitude is fine though). that is not to say that you can't criticise art, because that is simply stupid. you can, as long as you know what the artist was trying to achieve, because then it is possible to rate it on a scale that the artist had in consideration while making his work. since most of us cannot just go up to Gammer and ask him what he was trying to do with his track, we have to resort to speculation created by listening to the track and trying to comprehend it's elements, but i think that most of the time it is (somewhat) accurate. i also admit criticism if the artist is somehow hurting the scene with his tracks.
quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
Yeah, I completely agree with this. I also tend to make a division between paid and unpaid artists. I would never leave harsh, non-constructive criticism on a free track but when someone is asking you to pay for something or is being paid for something, you have much more room to criticise it. When there's money involved, the music is a product and, just like any other product, you have the right to say it's shit.
it would give you a right to criticise him if music was a basic necessity for your daily life, but i don't think complaining that you don't like someone's songs is exactly the same thing as complaining that the grocery store does not have fresh products. besides that, buying his product is a choice you make, it gives you no right to complain about how the product's quality has influenced negatively your life, especially when there are previews for virtually everything on soundcloud. there is no point in writing criticism only to inform others either, since everybody likes different things. an informative text on what the track technically is would be useful, but that is impartial scientific analysis, not exactly criticism.
the artist has no responsibilities towards the consumers (BESIDES, OF COURSE, WHAT HE PROMISES HIMSELF), so the consumers have no right to complain. the only responsibilities he might have are towards the label or whatever it demands from him, but we have nothing to do with that. it is up to the label to reprimand him, not us. if you think an artist has responsibilities towards the crowd, you are probably idolizing him too much. with a new hardcore style, Gammer/other new producers might have earned X new fans. he does not have to take responsibility for the old fans not adapting.
btw i really hate how these big posts look so offensive, i was just trying to think of a response and suddenly wall of text. anyway i hope neither of you take my response as hostile (i think one would have to care a little bit too much to though lol)
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Thumpa
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,600 posts
Joined: Feb, 2009
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 20:20:24
I don't like all of his music but he seems to get a lot of stick on here, more than most I'd say. Anyway we had a chat about stuff last week on the HU podcast, little sit down 10 minute thing with me Gammer and Fracus, check it out!
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Rawcous
Starting Member
United Kingdom
16 posts
Joined: Jun, 2012
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 20:22:53
Gammer is a talented fellow, that we can't deny. BUT he can be a bit of a dick. The way he calls people out like he has is just daft and he really doesn't like any form of critisism, as with a lot of the top tier, anyone who offers any form of critisism is immediately labelled as a hater.
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Thumpa
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,600 posts
Joined: Feb, 2009
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 20:24:38
The thing I don't get is, Gammer gets a lot of personalised messages stating why you don't like his music. ****ing hell you don't hear me messaging Klubfiller every 5 minutes telling him I don't like his tunes, I just don't listen to his music or his sets and I don't go on any of his social media outlets.
I often think that because Gammer is so approachable and has a quirky attitude, all the mentalists on the internet think they can just message him on the net calling him a ****. Life isn't like that.
Not sticking up for the kid in any way, this is the producer that ripped off Savage Garden, but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month into an amazing tune and made some wicked TWR tracks lately. I don't tell him I hate his Savage Garden rip every time I speak to him.
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oxis
Junior Member
Portugal
128 posts
Joined: Apr, 2014
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 20:26:59
quote:
Originally posted by Thumpa:
I don't like all of his music but he seems to get a lot of stick on here, more than most I'd say. Anyway we had a chat about stuff last week on the HU podcast, little sit down 10 minute thing with me Gammer and Fracus, check it out!
woa didn't know about this thanks. might make some people for some more defined opinions on him.
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 20:46:44
quote:
Originally posted by Thumpa:
The thing I don't get is, Gammer gets a lot of personalised messages stating why you don't like his music. ****ing hell you don't hear me messaging Klubfiller every 5 minutes telling him I don't like his tunes, I just don't listen to his music or his sets and I don't go on any of his social media outlets.
I often think that because Gammer is so approachable and has a quirky attitude, all the mentalists on the internet think they can just message him on the net calling him a ****. Life isn't like that.
Not sticking up for the kid in any way, this is the producer that ripped off Savage Garden, but its also the guy who's remixed Futureshock last month into an amazing tune and made some wicked TWR tracks lately. I don't tell him I hate his Savage Garden rip every time I speak to him.
Not about the personalized messages he's getting it's about his reaction to them. Yes he probably does get his fair share of them, but Klubfiller gets just as much if not more and it's very noticeable on his social media. The difference is Klubfiller doesn't bother to respond to them, and Gammer does. In him responding to it I think he instigates people into giving him more because it's clear it upsets him.
What I don't get is why he has to be a massive cunt in the way he responds to some of the massive cunts that talk some shit about his music. He's one of the 2 most popular UK hardcore djs/producers currently out there alongside Darren Styles, yet instead of focusing on the massive praise he's getting he's going to focus on one negative comment out of a thousand positive comments that come his way. It's embarrassing, pathetic, and sad a man of his level should waste his time like that.
BTW I may find him to be a bit of a massive cunt as a social media persona, and don't bother with him in person, but I still find him massively talented, so I don't normally criticize his work as a musician because I can appreciate the majority of them, with some exceptions.
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Edited by - latininxtc on 2015/03/25 21:15:37 |
CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 21:05:49
I'll take Ellipton menstruating online over dealing with a coachload of enraged Birkenheaders any day. 
I rarely dare to insert myself into any potential drama, these days, but.. What's the problem? For a scene supposedly on its arse there's textures and flavours for all palates atm. Support what you like, the natural order is that which is supported will sustain and that with widest support will thrive relatively. Shout about what you like, not what you don't.
CDJay
__________________________________
Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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Edited by - CDJay on 2015/03/25 21:07:07 |
latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 21:17:45
quote:
Originally posted by CDJay:
I'll take Ellipton menstruating online over dealing with a coachload of enraged Birkenheaders any day.
hah!
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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 Posted - 2015/03/25 : 21:25:46
Petty Officer CDJay reporting for duty!
Grand Admiral CDJay
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Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2015/03/25 : 21:34:11
Some of these responses are just gold.
quote:
Carl Johnson Lets roleplay! "Hey Gammer big fan man but like ur music lacks m8 it is not complex like ur 2008 style wot u doin?? I think it wud b ur best intrst to use VEC 2 kick and clap m8 n write JP supersaw riff jus dnt need a harmony man jus write notes m8." Seriously, the debate is lame anyway. HEY DR DRE UR OLD BEATS WERE SO TIGHT NOW U USE WEAK KICKS N SUBS WTF MANN ????
Like ? Reply ? 2 hours ago
wat
Oh and I just saw this:
quote:
Jamie Donovan Problem is, there's plenty of people out there that love the 2008 stuff, and they are the same people that have been raving to you and buying albums that you feature on for the six years before 2008 and the six years since.
What you made then and what you make now are fundamentally different (forget "better" or "worse - it's just totally different). That is obviously and understandably going to upset a few people and leave them feeling a bit nostalgic.
You get a lot of shit directed at you because, for some reason, you generally don't seem to give much respect to the people described in the paragraph above. Call it being quirky, call it being in touch with your fans, call it whatever you want - but alienating long-standing loyal fans is a) generally not a pleasant thing to do, and b) bad business.
Like ? 1 ? 28 minutes ago
Great point. He will slate his old supersaw-driven stuff at any opportunity. It always strikes me as odd that he so casually dismisses the music that got him where he is today. His attitude seems to be "that stuff I used to make was shit and you're a mug if you bought it".
__________________________________
old soundcloud
i gave up producing
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Edited by - Elliott on 2015/03/25 21:37:26 |
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Dear DJ Gammer
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