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jenks
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United Kingdom
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 Posted - 2007/01/27 : 10:30:48
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade V:
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
On a personal level I think it can do people some good, in terms of society it's awful. It doesn't promote advancement of any sort, infact you'll notice that the most religious nations are usually the most backward culturally and in most other resects too, I find it ironic that religions teach that killing is a sin and yet the countries where religion is most prominent are the ones that still cling to things like the death penalty.
In terms of truth it's almost laughable that people actually believe this stuff. Take Christianity for example, the Bible is written by men, yet is supposed to be the word of God, but why? What evidence is there that it's the word of God and not just made up? Other than some historical facts the confirm that many of the people in there were real, not much. Infact if you listen to the hardcore Christians they'll tell you the the world is only about 5000 years old! We know this to be rubbish, so why still believe?
In my opinion it's about people being insecure and unfortunatly: lazy, atleast in terms of their brain. It seems that can't come up with, or can't be bothered to come up with their own moral code, so they rely on an ancient (I suspect fictional) book. People don't like the unknown, so they'd rather dedicate their lives to a theology that promises to give them all the answers.
I realise that it gives people comfort and I'll even go as far as to respect that its what they choose to believe, but that will never make me respect them because I can't help but come to the conclusion than anyone that would relegate their mind into living in a state of blissful ignorace is a fool. The world needs to progress, people need to get over stupid differences atleast on state level and it will be hard enough without a burden like religion in my opinion.
Phew... got a bit carried away!
So how much do you know about the bible, Jenks?
Ever read a passage?
The people who you describe are called extremists. Still following?
Lazy in terms of their brain? Does that make you a cretin then? Let people believe what they want to believe
Are you ****ing retarded or what? Did you even read what I wrote? I WILL and DO let people believe what they want to believe, but this thread is for opinions, and as such I gave mine. You know freedom of speech and all that? If religious people (or any people for that matter) don't want to ever be criticised, then they shouldn't choose to live in a free society.
@ Nexus: Beliefs and faith should be on a personal level, but rarely ever stay that way.
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Underloop
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 10:57:43
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
On a personal level I think it can do people some good, in terms of society it's awful. It doesn't promote advancement of any sort, infact you'll notice that the most religious nations are usually the most backward culturally and in most other resects too, I find it ironic that religions teach that killing is a sin and yet the countries where religion is most prominent are the ones that still cling to things like the death penalty.
In terms of truth it's almost laughable that people actually believe this stuff. Take Christianity for example, the Bible is written by men, yet is supposed to be the word of God, but why? What evidence is there that it's the word of God and not just made up? Other than some historical facts the confirm that many of the people in there were real, not much. Infact if you listen to the hardcore Christians they'll tell you the the world is only about 5000 years old! We know this to be rubbish, so why still believe?
In my opinion it's about people being insecure and unfortunatly: lazy, atleast in terms of their brain. It seems that can't come up with, or can't be bothered to come up with their own moral code, so they rely on an ancient (I suspect fictional) book. People don't like the unknown, so they'd rather dedicate their lives to a theology that promises to give them all the answers.
I realise that it gives people comfort and I'll even go as far as to respect that its what they choose to believe, but that will never make me respect them because I can't help but come to the conclusion than anyone that would relegate their mind into living in a state of blissful ignorace is a fool. The world needs to progress, people need to get over stupid differences atleast on state level and it will be hard enough without a burden like religion in my opinion.
Phew... got a bit carried away!
OK, thought I'd answer a few of these points from my understanding of "stuff":
Hardcore Christians I have found are (and I apologise if anybody takes offence at this) full of **** - at least the ones I have met are. Actually, no I retract that statement as it is their beliefs, and I have no evidence that my beliefs are better or worse than theirs, but of the Born Again Christians I have met I have mostly disagreed with their extreme views on life. They take the Bible as being 100% literal. I'm sorry, you can't do that. Got into a big argument once at uni during a lab with a postgrad who was a born again christian. I was a sinner because I listened to popular music. WTF? I went on to point out some of the religious messages behind many songs, and it was like he was deaf or something - talking to a brick wall. I think he stopped talking to me after he found out that I let alcohol enter my body on occasions :-S
Like you said Jenks, the Bible was written by Man, or many men heh. Its like the worlds first blog! A collection of memoirs, letters etc. But you have to remember that these were very different times to ours. Take your example about the world being 5000 years old. Carbon dating didn't exist back in the year zero, so popular belief still said that the world was x years old. They also believed the world was flat. Unfortunately the publishers never published the revised edition, so the extremists still cling to the very word of the bible. Theres often this big notion that science and religion are opposite ends of the spectrum. Wrong, wrong, wrong wrong bloody wrong!!! Science and religion can go hand in hand. Science can back up religion in many ways, and yes it does change some of what was said 2000 years ago. And no doubt if an equivalent bible were to be written today then science in another 2000 years time would disagree with alot of what was written now.
Another example - the miracle of the loaves and fishes. Sounds a bit unlikely really that 1 loaf and 1 fish got shared between the 5000 really doesn't it? I imagine what really happened was that 1 boy came forward and offered to share his loaf and fish with everyone. It got put on a plate, and then passed around. As the plate got passed around all the people who had brought their own food but hidden it away in case others wanted it took food off the plate, and put some of theirs onto the plate, and so the plate went round. When the plate got back there was still food on it because everybody had shared their food out amongst everyone. Makes you see the story in a whole new light doesn't it?
That to me is what alot of the Bible is all about, reading between the lines. Interpreting the meaning behind it.
As for is the Bible real? Well, the Qur'an recognises Jesus as being a prophet, so unless there was some massive scam on a global scale there has to be at least some truth in it.
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Knightmare
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Belgium
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 11:59:06
I'm not gonna bother with reading the whole thread (because it's all been said on here in the past).
I'll just give my views on the whole mess and leave again.
K, so religion, to me, is a thing that SHOULD be between the person and whatever they choose to worship. They should live their life as they see fit (if that means by rules laid out by a god then so be it) and leave others to do the same. It should not be bound to any institution or council or whatever because if you need something to get in touch with your god it's either the case that you're not worhy to speak to your god, your god isn't powerful enough to hear you, your god doesn't WANT to hear you... and that would say a great deal about the thing they're worshipping.
Religious writings and institutions are all means to an end from ppl who desire to aquire more power for their own gain. "God" doesn't have a publisher and "God" shouldn't need a PR-agency either if he's all the believers say he is.
Religion is a personal matter and should be kept that way.
So basicly i don't view religion in a negative way, I do however see the use of religion or the excuse of religion to do things that affect others as dispicable.
The way religion is used to make excuses for things and to limit the will of many ppl is what is wrong with the whole matter.
Religion can give hope and comfort for the individual but when abused by others it can bring terror and mayhem to all those who just happen to have the wrong belief of interpretation of it.
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kathryn
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 13:23:02
quote:
Originally posted by NeXuS:
You all need jesus
*slaps a cross on each of your forheads*
Be healed!
But anyway...
quote:
Originally posted by Jenks:
Phew... got a bit carried away!
A bit?
"In terms of truth it's almost laughable that people actually believe this stuff"
"In my opinion it's about people being insecure and unfortunatly: lazy, atleast in terms of their brain"
"it will be hard enough without a burden like religion"
Good god son! Im sure their not out to scrape anyone's knees so why not let them be? I say in this war infested planet, let them be as blissful as they want.
Although Im not an active religious person, the way you speak about religion just doesn't seem right. As far as society is concerned it shouldn't have anything to do with it. Your beliefs and faith is on a very personnal level.
well i thought i believed in God until he let my dad suffer and die thats why my views have changed!
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Project-Industrial
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Netherlands
2,481 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
33 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 13:40:57
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
On a personal level I think it can do people some good, in terms of society it's awful. It doesn't promote advancement of any sort, infact you'll notice that the most religious nations are usually the most backward culturally and in most other resects too, I find it ironic that religions teach that killing is a sin and yet the countries where religion is most prominent are the ones that still cling to things like the death penalty.
In terms of truth it's almost laughable that people actually believe this stuff. Take Christianity for example, the Bible is written by men, yet is supposed to be the word of God, but why? What evidence is there that it's the word of God and not just made up? Other than some historical facts the confirm that many of the people in there were real, not much. Infact if you listen to the hardcore Christians they'll tell you the the world is only about 5000 years old! We know this to be rubbish, so why still believe?
In my opinion it's about people being insecure and unfortunatly: lazy, atleast in terms of their brain. It seems that can't come up with, or can't be bothered to come up with their own moral code, so they rely on an ancient (I suspect fictional) book. People don't like the unknown, so they'd rather dedicate their lives to a theology that promises to give them all the answers.
I realise that it gives people comfort and I'll even go as far as to respect that its what they choose to believe, but that will never make me respect them because I can't help but come to the conclusion than anyone that would relegate their mind into living in a state of blissful ignorace is a fool. The world needs to progress, people need to get over stupid differences atleast on state level and it will be hard enough without a burden like religion in my opinion.
Phew... got a bit carried away!
Hardcore Christians I have found are (and I apologise if anybody takes offence at this) full of **** - at least the ones I have met are. Actually, no I retract that statement as it is their beliefs, and I have no evidence that my beliefs are better or worse than theirs, but of the Born Again Christians I have met I have mostly disagreed with their extreme views on life. They take the Bible as being 100% literal. I'm sorry, you can't do that. Got into a big argument once at uni during a lab with a postgrad who was a born again christian. I was a sinner because I listened to popular music. WTF? I went on to point out some of the religious messages behind many songs, and it was like he was deaf or something - talking to a brick wall. I think he stopped talking to me after he found out that I let alcohol enter my body on occasions :-S
Like you said Jenks, the Bible was written by Man, or many men heh. Its like the worlds first blog! A collection of memoirs, letters etc. But you have to remember that these were very different times to ours. Take your example about the world being 5000 years old. Carbon dating didn't exist back in the year zero, so popular belief still said that the world was x years old. They also believed the world was flat. Unfortunately the publishers never published the revised edition, so the extremists still cling to the very word of the bible. Theres often this big notion that science and religion are opposite ends of the spectrum. Wrong, wrong, wrong wrong bloody wrong!!! Science and religion can go hand in hand. Science can back up religion in many ways, and yes it does change some of what was said 2000 years ago. And no doubt if an equivalent bible were to be written today then science in another 2000 years time would disagree with alot of what was written now.
Another example - the miracle of the loaves and fishes. Sounds a bit unlikely really that 1 loaf and 1 fish got shared between the 5000 really doesn't it? I imagine what really happened was that 1 boy came forward and offered to share his loaf and fish with everyone. It got put on a plate, and then passed around. As the plate got passed around all the people who had brought their own food but hidden it away in case others wanted it took food off the plate, and put some of theirs onto the plate, and so the plate went round. When the plate got back there was still food on it because everybody had shared their food out amongst everyone. Makes you see the story in a whole new light doesn't it?
That to me is what alot of the Bible is all about, reading between the lines. Interpreting the meaning behind it.
As for is the Bible real? Well, the Qur'an recognises Jesus as being a prophet, so unless there was some massive scam on a global scale there has to be at least some truth in it.
i agree on the most you say tbh.. i mean altho i believe and stuff.. i dont think ya gotta take all the stuff in the bible so litteraly else its gonna be like em muslims (srry if there are any here that feel shit if i say this) they take it so litterly that they start killin ppl o_O i mean ffs wot the hell do those guys think there doin?
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HARRIBO
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 15:19:22
life is all about choices and free will
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everything you gave to me you made me free!!
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Meathead
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 15:49:31
quote:
Originally posted by dj bugbear:
i dont think ya gotta take all the stuff in the bible so litteraly else its gonna be like em muslims (srry if there are any here that feel shit if i say this) they take it so litterly that they start killin ppl o_O i mean ffs wot the hell do those guys think there doin?
i dont get what u mean by that. i dunt say in the quran (thats spelt wrong) that killin is rite, its jus some dicks like bin laden n that bloke wiv the hook 4 hand that preach hate 2 impressionable n confused young muslims n say that "this is what allah wants". nowt 2 do with takin it all 2 literally.
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Underloop
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 16:22:48
quote:
Originally posted by Meathead:
quote:
Originally posted by dj bugbear:
i dont think ya gotta take all the stuff in the bible so litteraly else its gonna be like em muslims (srry if there are any here that feel shit if i say this) they take it so litterly that they start killin ppl o_O i mean ffs wot the hell do those guys think there doin?
i dont get what u mean by that. i dunt say in the quran (thats spelt wrong) that killin is rite, its jus some dicks like bin laden n that bloke wiv the hook 4 hand that preach hate 2 impressionable n confused young muslims n say that "this is what allah wants". nowt 2 do with takin it all 2 literally.
Its all an iterpretation. I haven't studied the Qur'an, but what I think it says is that to kill in the name of Allah, or defending Allah or something along those lines is not a sin. Islam is a peaceful religion, it is only the extremists who use violence in it's name
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NeXuS
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United States
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 01:11:26
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn:
well i thought i believed in God until he let my dad suffer and die thats why my views have changed!
I understand how that could effect some of your beliefs.
I was about 16 when my dad died, and I couldn't understand why a person who seemed to try his best in life and always got the short end of the stick, would die so young... according to "his plan"...
I had to make this interpretation: God does not control everything. He can influence but in the end Men do evil things and we are incharge of the physical aspect of this world. Religion may help us spiritualy but thats about it, can't cure cancer or a bad heart.
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charlieee
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Australia
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 02:46:54
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
quote:
Originally posted by Meathead:
quote:
Originally posted by dj bugbear:
i dont think ya gotta take all the stuff in the bible so litteraly else its gonna be like em muslims (srry if there are any here that feel shit if i say this) they take it so litterly that they start killin ppl o_O i mean ffs wot the hell do those guys think there doin?
i dont get what u mean by that. i dunt say in the quran (thats spelt wrong) that killin is rite, its jus some dicks like bin laden n that bloke wiv the hook 4 hand that preach hate 2 impressionable n confused young muslims n say that "this is what allah wants". nowt 2 do with takin it all 2 literally.
Its all an iterpretation. I haven't studied the Qur'an, but what I think it says is that to kill in the name of Allah, or defending Allah or something along those lines is not a sin. Islam is a peaceful religion, it is only the extremists who use violence in it's name
thats pretty much right islam is a pretty peaceful religion it is only the shi'tes that take it liturally (bout 10%) all the others are sunni which are not that crazy
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Cyborgasm
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Canada
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 02:59:56
organized religion is the bigest form of racism ever...
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Brian K
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 09:35:17
quote:
Originally posted by clarke101:
Especially as they are all very similar. I know lets have a conbined religion im sure christians will give up pork for world peace.
I don't think I could do it...I enjoy bacon too much =P
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Underloop
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 10:41:33
quote:
Originally posted by Brian K:
quote:
Originally posted by clarke101:
Especially as they are all very similar. I know lets have a conbined religion im sure christians will give up pork for world peace.
I don't think I could do it...I enjoy bacon too much =P
I'm with you there! English brekkie would be just an egg on toast :-(
Could we not change it to banning porridge or perhaps mushy peas?
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reenz
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 12:24:08
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
In my opinion it's about people being insecure and unfortunatly: lazy, atleast in terms of their brain. It seems that can't come up with, or can't be bothered to come up with their own moral code, so they rely on an ancient (I suspect fictional) book. People don't like the unknown, so they'd rather dedicate their lives to a theology that promises to give them all the answers.
I realise that it gives people comfort and I'll even go as far as to respect that its what they choose to believe, but that will never make me respect them because I can't help but come to the conclusion than anyone that would relegate their mind into living in a state of blissful ignorace is a fool.
1st paragraph... why does an interpretation of something like the bible or any other religious text have to be looked down upon... why does being religious have to equate to a lack of intelligence or willpower.... surely whoever has a religion for whatever reason connects with at least some of the ideas that are being put towards them... wouldnt this indicate someone using their brain to determine what feels right for them??? reading poetry or listening to your favourite song can invoke emotions, or ideas that you can probably relate to, im sure same goes for religious texts.... there are alot of extremists and fundamentalists out there and personally i believe that everything should be done in moderation. i believe religion should be also, but im not going to judge someone for their beliefs and i dont expect to be judged for mine (but lets face it there will always be ppl out there that will judge you on something no matter what).
2nd paragraph... i have never respected anyone more because they are religious and i wouldnt have really expected anyone would respect me more because i am religious.... i definitely havent relegated my mind to a state of blissful ignorance because i choose to believe there is something out there more powerful than us lol
whether or not religion may be bs or not isnt really the point, neither is whos religion is right or wrong or even if there is a right religion at all. the point is that people do have something to turn to... religion provides solace for many people and i agree with marshy, it is in a way a guideline to living life and a basic structure of morals etc and its up to the individual as to how they want to interpret these things... peoples overall views are going to be shaped by various other things in society like cultural beliefs anyway, so how someone decides to incorporate religion into their life is completely up to them.
in the end for me it is about believing that there is something out there that is more powerful than us and i dont think ill burn in hell because i dont go to church every sunday... or at least i hope i wont burn in hell 
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clarke101
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 13:00:37
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
quote:
Originally posted by Brian K:
quote:
Originally posted by clarke101:
Especially as they are all very similar. I know lets have a conbined religion im sure christians will give up pork for world peace.
I don't think I could do it...I enjoy bacon too much =P
I'm with you there! English brekkie would be just an egg on toast :-(
Could we not change it to banning porridge or perhaps mushy peas?
Actually i think your onto something banning mushy peas. Porridge isnt to bad once or twice a year.
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