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MAtRiCks
Advanced Member
Canada
1,059 posts
Joined: Sep, 2006
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 Posted - 2009/06/03 : 22:17:39
Oh Pascal, you are so enigmatic :P
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acidfluxxbass
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
5,000 posts
Joined: Apr, 2008
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Posted - 2009/06/03 : 22:18:33
quote:
Originally posted by Trimms:
You should show them the commercial stuff first. That's the gateway into hardcore. Sorry that it's so good that lots of people like it.
I disagree.. :(
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Mortis
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,493 posts
Joined: May, 2004
341 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/06/03 : 22:32:26
quote:
Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
quote:
Originally posted by Trimms:
You should show them the commercial stuff first. That's the gateway into hardcore. Sorry that it's so good that lots of people like it.
I disagree.. :(
As much as it pains me to say but I agree with Trimms (nothing personal Trimms). That's the best way to get people hooked on the music, that's how I got hooked on the music nearly 15 years ago. Once your in you get an ear for what you really like you take it from there.
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"Maybe in a day and age in which even our rappers can't get to the end of a verse without having an existential crisis, we should find a place for happy hardcore"
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2009/06/03 : 22:34:13
I'm enjoying this newfound carte blance for anything "commercial" recently. Sort of a counter to a counter as it were.
What people seem to have conveniently forgotten is that whilst it *is* a gateway in theory, it hasn't actually been one since '05 because it's so exclusively at the forefront. There is zero effort by the major players to use events, albums or DJ sets to push anything beyond that.
Oh, not to mention that most of it is intentionally disposable and shamelessly overplayed with the express intent of recycling causal ravers and buyers. IE yes it gets people IN to hardcore, for about three months. Then they work out that the past 5 big raves have comprised the same people playing the same tunes, then they wander off to funky house. This is why is remains necessary to keep pandering to that initial audience, because there has been so little attempt at retaining one in recent years.
My favourite development in the past decade is that unlike the 90's, you can behave however you like professionally and artistically and explain it away w/ a throwaway "it's business".....
Maybe it is, but it wasn't always exclusively a business and it certainly doesn't have to be just that.
Sorry, had that rant pending for a while. 
CDJay
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Wilky
Banned
United Kingdom
6,198 posts
Joined: Mar, 2008
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Posted - 2009/06/03 : 22:41:42
quote:
Originally posted by CDJay:
I'm enjoying this newfound carte blance for anything "commercial" recently. Sort of a counter to a counter as it were.
What people seem to have conveniently forgotten is that whilst it *is* a gateway in theory, it hasn't actually been one since '05 because it's so exclusively at the forefront. There is zero effort by the major players to use events, albums or DJ sets to push anything beyond that.
Oh, not to mention that most of it is intentionally disposable and shamelessly overplayed with the express intent of recycling causal ravers and buyers. IE yes it gets people IN to hardcore, for about three months. Then they work out that the past 5 big raves have comprised the same people playing the same tunes, then they wander off to funky house. This is why is remains necessary to keep pandering to that initial audience, because there has been so little attempt at retaining one in recent years.
My favourite development in the past decade is that unlike the 90's, you can behave however you like professionally and artistically and explain it away w/ a throwaway "it's business".....
Maybe it is, but it wasn't always exclusively a business and it certainly doesn't have to be just that.
Sorry, had that rant pending for a while.
CDJay
thats because most of the big boys, old boys whatever u want to call them think hardcore owes them a pention and will stop at nothin until they get that pention
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acidfluxxbass
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
5,000 posts
Joined: Apr, 2008
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Posted - 2009/06/03 : 22:45:48
Commercialism isnt a gateway, its a net.
Its intended to get people hooked on the music so that they dont discover anything else.
Companies like MoS or AATW will bombard fans so much with their own stuff, they dont even get the chance to hear the more rare stuff.
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2009/06/03 : 22:57:54
People are far too quick to blame the parent companies; There have always been larger companies behind the hardcore albums.
I don't think there is anything particuarly wrong w/ how MoS or AATW have handled any albums in living memory.
CDJay
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Edited by - CDJay on 2009/06/04 00:30:45 |
Mortis
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,493 posts
Joined: May, 2004
341 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/06/03 : 23:04:32
quote:
Originally posted by CDJay:
I'm enjoying this newfound carte blance for anything "commercial" recently. Sort of a counter to a counter as it were.
What people seem to have conveniently forgotten is that whilst it *is* a gateway in theory, it hasn't actually been one since '05 because it's so exclusively at the forefront. There is zero effort by the major players to use events, albums or DJ sets to push anything beyond that.
Oh, not to mention that most of it is intentionally disposable and shamelessly overplayed with the express intent of recycling causal ravers and buyers. IE yes it gets people IN to hardcore, for about three months. Then they work out that the past 5 big raves have comprised the same people playing the same tunes, then they wander off to funky house. This is why is remains necessary to keep pandering to that initial audience, because there has been so little attempt at retaining one in recent years.
My favourite development in the past decade is that unlike the 90's, you can behave however you like professionally and artistically and explain it away w/ a throwaway "it's business".....
Maybe it is, but it wasn't always exclusively a business and it certainly doesn't have to be just that.
Sorry, had that rant pending for a while.
CDJay
Well said.
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"Maybe in a day and age in which even our rappers can't get to the end of a verse without having an existential crisis, we should find a place for happy hardcore"
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xMx
Junior Member
United States
94 posts
Joined: May, 2009
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Posted - 2009/06/03 : 23:55:46
CLSM is good! Look them up!
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2009/06/04 : 00:58:08
Also probably worth mentioning that Bonkers 3 seemed to sell shed loads of units on the base of a strong scene, product and word of mouth.
So I can't quite see why all these compromises are inherently justified to hit "a commercial market". It's invariably paradoxial jibberish, and puts an entire scene at the whims of a faintly interested supermarket buyer on the basis of strong marketing and retail ties. The motivation for which is simply short term returns, with nothing resembling a long term strategem for the music or foundation that supports it.
"Commercial" hardcore will last as long as their are large proven safe returns on it. Once that dries up what do you think will be left?
Think hard before you answer.
CDJay
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Edited by - CDJay on 2009/06/04 01:01:37 |
Mortis
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,493 posts
Joined: May, 2004
341 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/06/04 : 01:24:19
quote:
Originally posted by CDJay:
"Commercial" hardcore will last as long as their are large proven safe returns on it. Once that dries up what do you think will be left?
Think hard before you answer.
The only thing left will be a shatterd "commercial scene" and a lot of producers and DJ's with red faces trying to claw their way back into a music scene in some way, pretty much what happened at the turn of the century.
What I think will happen or more so what I hope will happen is that the "big boys" will finally move on and let the music grow in the way that the fans want it too which will ultimately lead us back to the underground ideal...unfortunately from that it will inevitably spawn another great "commercial" uprising. And so the cycle will continue...
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"Maybe in a day and age in which even our rappers can't get to the end of a verse without having an existential crisis, we should find a place for happy hardcore"
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Edited by - Mortis on 2009/06/04 01:32:00 |
Bonkers4Life
Advanced Member
Canada
972 posts
Joined: Apr, 2009
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Posted - 2009/06/04 : 03:43:16
* DJ Vibes
* Bangbros (German DJ Team)
* Jimmy J
* DJ Brisk
* Seduction
* DJ Paul Elstak
* Bang! (Blaze!, Nimrod, Stealth)
* DJ Dougal
* Wishdokta aka Grant Nelson
* Hixxy
* DJ/MC Sharkey
* Gammer (Matt Lee)
* Scott Brown (Interstate, Q-tex)
* DJ Sy
* solid base
* DJ Slipmatt
* Orbit 1
* Stu Allan
* Charly Lownoise & Mental Theo
* DJ Satomi
* Nightcore
* Nakatomi
* Critical Mass
* Darren Styles (Unique)
* Breeze
* Scooter
* Dune
* Blümchen
* Ramos, Supreme & Sunset Regime
* Trixxy
* DJ Ham
* DJ S3rl
* DJ Bluecore
* DJ Cotts
* DJ Ravine
* Milo
* DJ Sharpnel
* Jamie Ritmen
*means, kick ass :P
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Trimms
Senior Member
United States
494 posts
Joined: Aug, 2008
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Posted - 2009/06/04 : 04:05:47
I am someone who got into hardcore through Clubland, and here I am, on HH.com, discussing underground hardcore day in and day out. I still like what I heard on Clubland, but I am more into the other stuff coming out. Don't say that Clubland isn't a gateway, especially to me, when it has been my gateway and the gateway for 400 other ravers I have created in my local scene. We started playing Darren Styles and Hixxy and I LOVE their music. Now I play all sorts of artists and have been mixing HU3 for the past month... people love it, AND they love it when The 'C' Commander or Come Running hits. Why can't everyone just be like this? There is so much more to appreciate than there is to hate, but everyone on the internet seems to hate commercial hardcore because it's a) popular (yes, because it's well-produced, catchy, and listenable) and/or b) it's 'ruining' their scene (no, HU3 just came out and new artists are posting their productions all over forums, learn to appreciate the quality you're being given).
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2009/06/04 : 04:23:22
That's the thing, I actually agree. There's a place for it all, and it should all be showcased.
The problem is that the so called "commerical" market in it's current incarnation literally smothers anything alternative, even alternative music in an entirely similar vein.
I've noticed that people into UK Hardcore from abroad tend to be typically more informed about the wider scene. Let's face it, they'll have to look on the internet where there's a far more level playing field. Here in the UK, however, the higher profile stuff is pushed so exclusively from such an monopolised base that it often precludes people paying any attention beyond it.
The days of people trawling through record stores playing out white labels and joyfully discovering new music are presently behind us. Ultimately, well, it's leading by example isn't it? If the biggest DJs aren't interested enough in the music to look beyond their own CD wallet how can we expect anyone else to?
I guess my rant-summary will be: I entirely agree with you, and indeed what I think you are trying to say, but I'm looking at things from a different perspective I guess.
CDJay
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Edited by - CDJay on 2009/06/04 05:47:47 |
Himself
Junior Member
United Kingdom
92 posts
Joined: May, 2009
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Posted - 2009/06/04 : 09:55:00
I believe that a lot of the big names out there are making some serious mistakes. They need to start promoting the smaller artists so that once they leave the scene, there are enough young producers to continue things. I'd say Dougal has probably made one of the biggest contributions to hardcore by taking on Gammer and more big names need to do this kind of thing.
But anyway back to original topic. What you need to do is find an artist who you like and take things from there. Check out thier myspace and also visit the myspace pages of their top friends since they'll often be artists who producer similiar style material...and if you're looking for a big name, try Weaver who is apparently the biggest hardcore producer in Australia
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