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choonland
Advanced Member
Colombia
1,100 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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 Posted - 2009/06/17 : 04:31:19
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
If you don't have the money to buy the music, don't buy it; you don't need it to live, no one is making you buy it.
even if you needed music to live it wouldn't be free either, people needs food but its not free, and thats why people dies in many countries...
I could say that music is some sort of recreational need, and that makes it a human right, thus it should be free, as breathing or the right to freedom :P
but in the end, as some dude said:
" if you need to justify yourself, then you are probably doing something bad "
so DON'T DO IT peeps, just sit sad in your room and find yourself something else to entertaint you, go and play monopoly with your neighbour, ...ohhh! and be sure the game was bought legally 
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Edited by - choonland on 2009/06/17 04:40:07 |
Lilley
Advanced Member
Australia
3,740 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 04:44:21
quote:
Originally posted by Nav:
Explain. I know you already think you have explained yourself, but you have not. Define piracy, define stealing (show me sources), and then explain how:
1. Every download would have been a sale had the download not existed, and
2. Piracy is killing the scene.
Find it yourself mate, I dont have to prove anything to you, I just point out ******** when i see it.
As for explaining, read over the thread carefully and slowly, its been answered. If you really are interested and want to find out more, up the top right of your screen is a search button. This topic has been covered many times.
Also look up copyright infringement and software piracy. wikipedia is a start but hardly an authority.
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Lilley
Advanced Member
Australia
3,740 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 04:51:41
quote:
Originally posted by Naturatech:
I could say that music is some sort of recreational need, and that makes it a human right, thus it should be free, as breathing or the right to freedom :P
WHO defined our needs for life as food, water, shelter and cothing. music doesnt come into that 
recreational need? wtf? sure it might be recreation, but you dont needit, and you dont need recreation either. sure its enjoyable, but you dont need it.
On that thought, many recreation activities have a cost - you have to pay entrance fee's to theme parks, if you want to own music, you should pay for it. otherwise there is the radio - that would suit recreation "needs"
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,579 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 05:33:14
quote:
Originally posted by Nav:
I think we are discussing different things. I am talking about downloading music to listen to at home. I think you are talking about downloading music to play out and to earn revenue with.
If making money with music that you've downloaded illegally, then it is absolutely not OK, and I completely disagree that it is allowed. However, if all you're doing is listening on the rides to and from school/work, or just for personal use, I do not believe that it is so wrong.
Home or pro use there is no difference, it is not okay in any case (unless the copyright owner gave it away for free)... same as software, if you pirate software for your home computer or a company pirates software for their business it is still pirated software.
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choonland
Advanced Member
Colombia
1,100 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 06:47:43
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
quote:
Originally posted by Naturatech:
I could say that music is some sort of recreational need, and that makes it a human right, thus it should be free, as breathing or the right to freedom :P
WHO defined our needs for life as food, water, shelter and cothing. music doesnt come into that
recreational need? wtf? sure it might be recreation, but you dont needit, and you dont need recreation either. sure its enjoyable, but you dont need it.
On that thought, many recreation activities have a cost - you have to pay entrance fee's to theme parks, if you want to own music, you should pay for it. otherwise there is the radio - that would suit recreation "needs"
what about recording stuff from radio, is that bad too?
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Lilley
Advanced Member
Australia
3,740 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 07:07:03
quote:
Originally posted by Naturatech:
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
quote:
Originally posted by Naturatech:
I could say that music is some sort of recreational need, and that makes it a human right, thus it should be free, as breathing or the right to freedom :P
WHO defined our needs for life as food, water, shelter and cothing. music doesnt come into that
recreational need? wtf? sure it might be recreation, but you dont needit, and you dont need recreation either. sure its enjoyable, but you dont need it.
On that thought, many recreation activities have a cost - you have to pay entrance fee's to theme parks, if you want to own music, you should pay for it. otherwise there is the radio - that would suit recreation "needs"
what about recording stuff from radio, is that bad too?
well, strictly speaking, yes. but radio quality is so crap that if your willing to put up with it, more power to you.
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Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts
Joined: Apr, 2007
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 07:32:28
quote:
Originally posted by Naturatech:
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
quote:
Originally posted by Naturatech:
I could say that music is some sort of recreational need, and that makes it a human right, thus it should be free, as breathing or the right to freedom :P
WHO defined our needs for life as food, water, shelter and cothing. music doesnt come into that
recreational need? wtf? sure it might be recreation, but you dont needit, and you dont need recreation either. sure its enjoyable, but you dont need it.
On that thought, many recreation activities have a cost - you have to pay entrance fee's to theme parks, if you want to own music, you should pay for it. otherwise there is the radio - that would suit recreation "needs"
what about recording stuff from radio, is that bad too?
yes
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Starstruck
Advanced Member
Australia
1,152 posts
Joined: Jul, 2008
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 08:35:09
Who the **** would record from radio anyway, the quality of my anus is better than that..
Why goto all the trouble to ****ing fileshare anyway.. just pop into HMV and buy the song on the radio?
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Nav
New Member
United States
76 posts
Joined: Nov, 2008
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 13:37:15
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
Find it yourself mate, I dont have to prove anything to you, I just point out ******** when i see it.
As for explaining, read over the thread carefully and slowly, its been answered. If you really are interested and want to find out more, up the top right of your screen is a search button. This topic has been covered many times.
Also look up copyright infringement and software piracy. wikipedia is a start but hardly an authority.
See, this is what I expected was going to happen. Go find my posts, declare them ******** with little to no justification, then when I ask for a real explanation as to the "correct" views, I'm confronted with "go do research yourself."
The truth is that I HAVE done the research. I understand what Piracy is. I understand copyright infringement. I just do not believe that it is wrong. I'm not going to bother to argue about this, since everyone in this thread is mostly just whining about the songs of theirs that have been pirated, or quasi-imaginary and nigh-impossible to enforce copyright laws. In a community so linked with illegal drug use, I'm surprised that another minor law breach isn't backed.
Leaving with one thing. If you're going to comment on this post, comment on this part:
Piracy cannot be stopped.
I don't care why it happened. I don't care how much money they're losing and how bad it is. The truth of the matter is that piracy has started, the box has been opened, and it can never again be closed, no matter how hard you try.
The ONLY thing to do is change around piracy, not try to fight it, since fighting it gets you nowhere. Even in the court of law, piracy is winning out due to the breach in personal freedoms that would come along with snooping internet traffic for illegal content. Really, the only ones still getting in trouble for piracy are a few small scapegoats, specifically chosen by the RIAA to "create a splash." However, this strategy of scapegoating didn't work, so they stopped doing it. That means, at this point in time, the downloaders aren't getting in trouble: only the people who run the sites. So, if there is little chance of a repercussion and free music, or a lot of money and smaller amounts of music but no chance of repercussion, I think that the public would choose to pirate it. Sorry, but it's true. Truth can hurt.
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Lilley
Advanced Member
Australia
3,740 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 16:32:03
quote:
Originally posted by Nav:
Piracy cannot be stopped.
simply, you asked for definitions, you asked for answers. the answers have been given. you havnt accepted them. That is not my problem. You havnt accepted answers, so im not going to bother doing you research for you, because you wont accept that either.
If your the one that wants correct views, you have to open your eyes, because your not seeing them when they are given to you. Your going to go and have to do it for yourself, with a level-headed, non-baised viewpoint - before you reply to that, the fact that you thought samination showed level-headedness with no bias shows that you are not level-headed and you are biased. Dont reply saying that i'm biased as well, sure im biased. But you came into this post putting forward "facts" that were objectively incorrect. I pointed out where they were incorrect, and how they were incorrect, and being objective fallacies, bias did not come into it.
Now onto your post.
I completely agree that piracy cant be stopped. Even at court level, while it is possible to prosecute the end user, the downloader, it isnt done because the problem is so widespread. But that doesnt make it right. When they do go after someone, it is usually the person who is responsible for leaking material.
Even if authorities find ways to fight piracy, people will find new ways to pirate. But that doesnt make it right, and thats the point.
Finally, I'm outa this thread. and when i say that i actually mean it.
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,579 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 17:54:47
Nav: Please leave hardcore, your not a fan if you don't support the artists. I don't care what justification you think you have for stealing it, hardcore isn't pop music and even 10 sales count in such a small genre. You can't justify taking the salary away from a talented musician without even offering a solution to fix the problem.
All the arguments of more people will come to your DJ gig and you'll get more money or more fans with buy your T-shirts are crap, I dont see any DJ's selling t-shirts and not everyone gets DJ gigs.
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,455 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 18:01:54
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
quote:
Originally posted by Naturatech:
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
quote:
Originally posted by Naturatech:
I could say that music is some sort of recreational need, and that makes it a human right, thus it should be free, as breathing or the right to freedom :P
WHO defined our needs for life as food, water, shelter and cothing. music doesnt come into that
recreational need? wtf? sure it might be recreation, but you dont needit, and you dont need recreation either. sure its enjoyable, but you dont need it.
On that thought, many recreation activities have a cost - you have to pay entrance fee's to theme parks, if you want to own music, you should pay for it. otherwise there is the radio - that would suit recreation "needs"
what about recording stuff from radio, is that bad too?
well, strictly speaking, yes. but radio quality is so crap that if your willing to put up with it, more power to you.
Hell no. In Finland if you buy a CD-r, DVD-r, casette, hard drive etc they all contain a fee to a RIAA type organization. Its also perfectly legal by all laws to copy to your own use from any media, thats why we have empty discs for christ sake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy
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Edited by - whispering on 2009/06/17 18:10:41 |
Sendaii
Junior Member
United Kingdom
80 posts
Joined: Jun, 2009
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 19:52:34
In my opinion, in a world where the corporate side of the music industry is only interested in making a quick buck, file sharing is the best way for the artist at the start of their career to get their music out there at minimal cost, if any, to them. Being independent of a record label also means that you can produce what makes you happy and not what will generate the most profits.
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Nav
New Member
United States
76 posts
Joined: Nov, 2008
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 20:08:39
quote:
Originally posted by silver:
Nav: Please leave hardcore, your not a fan if you don't support the artists. I don't care what justification you think you have for stealing it, hardcore isn't pop music and even 10 sales count in such a small genre. You can't justify taking the salary away from a talented musician without even offering a solution to fix the problem.
I do support the artists. I buy the music if I enjoy it, as I have done in the past. What everyone else chooses to do in that respect is their issue. If you don't believe it, then go ahead and ban me, which is what you've obviously been hinting at. It would stop the argument (by removing anyone with different views). I'm not that afraid of getting banned from a site that I have little invested in and little taken out of.
Before you do that, note that moral values are based on what you have learned early in life. If a generation grows up thinking that piracy is wrong, then it is. If the generation does not believe it is wrong, then it's not wrong. "Right and Wrong" were invented by people. When the overwhelming majority of people in the world think that something is right, it probably is, and vice versa.
Lilley: I came into this sporting facts that neither I nor you can prove correct or incorrect. Therefore they are moot. I cannot convince you: that is obvious. You cannot do the same. We are both biased against each other. We must therefore simply stop this stupid argument before it gets more serious than it already is.
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TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2009/06/17 : 22:42:41
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
That's because your generation is ****ed! It is SO bad that you can't see anything wrong with that.
I've heard the argument "i can't afford it" and that is NO excuse. Just because you can't afford it, how does that, in any way, entitle you to not having to pay for it?
In regards to what the other person said before "i believe if people download it, and they like it, they will buy it" is ****ing NONSENSE.
Seriously, if that happened then the music industry as a whole wouldn't be the shadow of it's former self than it is. I think the last article i read said that the music industry as a whole makes 5% of what it did 5 years ago. Do some research for **** sake. If people downloaded and then bought, this wouldn't be happening.
I am so shocked that you think it's okay to download for personal use. Is it okay to steal a ferrari, aslong as you're just driving it to and from school, not making any money from it from races? ****ing idiots both of you.
That's complete CRAP!
If the music industry only made 5% of what it did 5 years ago, IT would have filed for a bankrupcy already.
The music industry isn't owned by one company to be able to "file for bankruptcy", it is made up of multiple (1000s) of companies in different genre's selling their music.
What you're seeing is less companies being able to start up, and only the companies with large stakes in the game already surviving. All the little companies, the ones that signed new Artists not already known, fading out. Fewer and fewer people willing to risk their money at this game of cat and mouse.
Too many people file share, and not enough are buying to have a music scene where everyone is allowed to display what they want. It's a lot harder to get deals, and just walking up to a music company with a song on a CD won't get you anywhere now. It's at the point where the more powerful companies stomp out everything they don't think will sell good, and this has lead to "commericaliztion", where things sound the same, all the time.
Sure, this isn't the whole. It isn't everything, but it is the majority.
If people downloaded illegally, then bought their music afterwards, then like Andy said WE WOULDNT HAVE THIS PROBLEM. Generations are being brought up thinking it's okay to take the music, because they're just listening to it. They have it stuck in their mind it's for their enjoyment, and the artist will be fine if they just take a couple songs. WHICH IS TOTAL BS! You're taking money out of their pocket they could of made! These habits lead from stealing one or two songs, to stealing fourteen albums in the matter of 20 minutes!
The problem isn't being fixed! THATS WHY ITS A PROBLEM.
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