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Triquatra
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United Kingdom
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 Posted - 2009/08/27 : 23:22:52
im sure they are, so its just a case of freezing dongles that they deam to be doing somthing suspicius
and i guess all this is irrelevant discussing anyway if they are just going to block/censor sites from their customers getting them in the first place
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Sendaii
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 00:44:08
quote:
Originally posted by Audio Warfare:
quote:
Originally posted by Sendaii:
And YOU are very naive if you think that the "powers that be" as you put it can wave a magic wand and have your information fall into their laps. There are hundreds of ways to hide yourself, each more secure than the last.
Yeah but you can bet your arse that they know of all of them and a way round most. I'm sorry but if the government want to track someone that badly they will likely be able to do it.... Unless the guy they're tracking is very good at what he does.
Technology doesn't stand still. Once one method has been compromised, another will pop up a few days or weeks later. And that's just it: I don't believe that the government WANTS to track people that badly simply for sharing a few files and on the say-so of a private company. They have more important problems, yes?
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
meh either way - you go through an IP, and have an account and back to what i said before
they flag an account for suspcious activity, its just a case of shutting it down
mobile broadband is still arse-slow as well.
until they bring in full scale militica scale Wi-Max it will continue to be
I don't see why. There are approximately 7 million file sharers in the UK alone, shutting down the accounts of that many people simply wouldn't be profitable, so it doesn't and won't happen. An ISP would only do that if they were forced to, and then what? The file sharer simply signs up to another ISP. Nothing is solved and an ISP loses money. If the music industry wants to solve the problem of piracy, then they are going to have to do better than this.
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Edited by - Sendaii on 2009/08/28 00:45:43 |
Triquatra
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 07:45:20
ughhhhh, i really dont care - ive already said it wont happen (as in the the rules coming into place) i was just pointing out how easy it is for an ISP to flip the switch on an account if they wanted to.
and you are right an ISP would only probably do that if they were forced to - faced with massive fines (or perhaps payouts for shutting them down) that might just be pushed/enticed to do that - and internet censorship isnt exactly a new thing at all.
but anywya its like debating what shade of blue the sky is...or fitting wheels to a tomato.
news artcles pop up like this all the time all they need is one toff to say "Wouldnt it be nice if" and the next thing you know the press will call it a "proposal" and try and make it sound like its happening next week.
to put it in perspective, there are far more important things i worry about - like what im going to eat for dinner...did i just take too long on the toilet....am i running out of socks...why do they make white boxers when most men steer clear of them...why is goatsex still illegal..
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2009/08/28 07:54:36 |
Audio Warfare
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 10:40:36
quote:
Originally posted by Sendaii:
Technology doesn't stand still. Once one method has been compromised, another will pop up a few days or weeks later. And that's just it: I don't believe that the government WANTS to track people that badly simply for sharing a few files and on the say-so of a private company. They have more important problems, yes?
Yes but you were claiming that anyone with half a brain can avoid detection if they want and this is simply not the case.
quote:
Originally posted by Sendaii:
It's VERY easy to cover your tracks. Only stupid people are caught.
So you're saying that anyone who doesn't keep us with this ever moving technology is stupid. I know loads of very intelligent people who know nothing of such things.
The MAJORITY of people wouldn’t be able to hide themselves well enough to avoid the governments prying eyes if they fancied checking up on them. There is no doubt a few people that can and of course the government aren’t interested on checking up on every Tom, Dick and Harry but that was never the point and I never argued this fact if you care to look back.
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Edited by - Audio Warfare on 2009/08/28 10:53:31 |
whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 12:11:29
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
you disagree that they cant suspend your account if they view you as doing somthing that they class as ""suspcious activity"?
I disagree that they cant even monitor IF i'm doing suspicious activity, let alone suspend my account for it. But then again i dont live in UK, so dont know how ****ed up consumer laws you have there ;)
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
ISPs in the UK have every right after you sign their TnC to shut your account down for whatever reason they want.
They sold you internet connection, if they cant hold their end of the deal, you'll get your money back. Thats how it works here. But then again, no one has, AFAIK, tested the boundaries of the law here.
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 12:34:14
well, i dont want to spam this thread with TnC lol but to answer your first point
yes, i would guess its a little different in the UK lol
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/legal/oncable/terms.html
id refer you to Section G paragragh 2 (about use and monitoring of data)
and section I paragraph 1 (about suspending services without notice)
and referenceing section I i would also link you to their "fair use/abuse" TnC
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/legal/oncable/acceptableuse.html
i was going to point out specific parts of it...but pretty much the whole thing is relevent to this conversation.
as for your second point...
when have i ever suggested that you wouldnt get your money back when they suspend your account lol
even so - virgins TnC's which are practically the same as all the other ISP's in england will regard it as a breach of contract, no refunds suckaz.
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whispering
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 13:14:02
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
*text*
Not going to read the EULA, gonna take your word for it :p But a company can write on their EULA whatever they like, if it conflicts with the law, you can wipe your ass with it. However, thats only in here, i dont know about UK consumer laws.
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 13:23:01
indeed, i doubt that Virgin, BT and Sky will write anything that conflicts with the law though they are massive massive companys who hire lawfirms to make sure their shit is watertight
england = massive bureaucracy
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Sendaii
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 14:04:32
quote:
Originally posted by Audio Warfare:
quote:
Originally posted by Sendaii:
Technology doesn't stand still. Once one method has been compromised, another will pop up a few days or weeks later. And that's just it: I don't believe that the government WANTS to track people that badly simply for sharing a few files and on the say-so of a private company. They have more important problems, yes?
Yes but you were claiming that anyone with half a brain can avoid detection if they want and this is simply not the case.
quote:
Originally posted by Sendaii:
It's VERY easy to cover your tracks. Only stupid people are caught.
So you're saying that anyone who doesn't keep us with this ever moving technology is stupid. I know loads of very intelligent people who know nothing of such things.
The MAJORITY of people wouldn’t be able to hide themselves well enough to avoid the governments prying eyes if they fancied checking up on them. There is no doubt a few people that can and of course the government aren’t interested on checking up on every Tom, Dick and Harry but that was never the point and I never argued this fact if you care to look back.
It's true. Anyone with half a brain CAN avoid detection. It gets easier every day. There really isn't an excuse not to anymore.
And no, I'm not saying that they are stupid at all, far from it. I'm saying that if you are caught file sharing without even the most rudimentary protection, you have no one to blame but yourself, and yes, that makes you very stupid. Chances are, your friends don't share files anyway.
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 14:23:00
if you are illegal filesharing in the first place you have no one to blame but yourself regardless. :P
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whispering
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 15:23:16
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
indeed, i doubt that Virgin, BT and Sky will write anything that conflicts with the law though they are massive massive companys who hire lawfirms to make sure their shit is watertight
england = massive bureaucracy
When Google Chrome's first version was released, its EULA said that they own every email you send using it, they can save your bank info etc. Google is a lot bigger then Virgin, BT and Sky combined. My point is, that big companies will "test the water", and put whatever ******** they want on the EULA, when people revoke they will probably do another one (as was with google), but i wouldnt call them water tight. I couldnt have sued Google if they actually did what their EULA said, but i bet someone in US could have (they still have some civil liberties left in US, i think? :P).
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Wilky
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 15:27:01
quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
indeed, i doubt that Virgin, BT and Sky will write anything that conflicts with the law though they are massive massive companys who hire lawfirms to make sure their shit is watertight
england = massive bureaucracy
When Google Chrome's first version was released, its EULA said that they own every email you send using it, they can save your bank info etc. Google is a lot bigger then Virgin, BT and Sky combined. My point is, that big companies will "test the water", and put whatever ******** they want on the EULA, when people revoke they will probably do another one (as was with google), but i wouldnt call them water tight. I couldnt have sued Google if they actually did what their EULA said, but i bet someone in US could have (they still have some civil liberties left in US, i think? :P).
pease tell me u r joking? im using google chrome right now
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whispering
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 15:46:48
quote:
Originally posted by Wilky:
pease tell me u r joking? im using google chrome right now
I'm not joking, but they changed the EULA, so youre safe.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2008/09/google-on-chrome-eula-controversy-our-bad-well-change-it.ars
However, i personally wouldnt even touch that browser after what they trued to put through.
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Edited by - whispering on 2009/08/28 15:50:30 |
Triquatra
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 15:47:11
he said first version.
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/legal/oncable/acceptableuse.html
thats alot to get revoked and turned over
wishful thinking that they'll just rollover and playball.
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Wilky
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Posted - 2009/08/28 : 15:50:59
i dont know what verion i got lol
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