ViolonC Average Member
Germany
243 posts Joined: Sep, 2014
Posted - 2017/03/22 : 23:09:58
Not sure what you guys are wining about. The British side of Hardcore never had an original spark since you started calling it UK Hardcore ripping other genres off one by one. Guest is right (ffs that i have to say this): innovation moved to D&B and back to the Netherlands with a few exceptions.
Now american EDM has taken over the dance scene worldwide but you guys are still baffled that UK Hardcore is hard to market outside of the UK. US culture doesn't have this strong "one event one genre" culture that Europe does so from people who get them sets and productions are more diverse.
While in the UK producers rip off Hardstyle as the "newest" thing and make it into UKHC. It's not bad but certainly nothing original.
And over all reside the old guys that are emotionally attached to the older stuff and rightfully skeptical to everything diverting from that. Why don't you leave Gammer et. al. alone doing their thing? Do you really think they will 'devalue' Hardcore that has stolen from Trance, House, Drum & Bass, Hardstyle, Brostep and the List goes on anyway? Is it just the label they put on their music or do you feel betrayed by them, now that they don't love you back anymore?
There are still great Labels like TrackMaster Music that regularly release the uplifting 2010-ish Stuff. KnightForce is till there and doing what it always did. Evolution is still true to the old hardcore sounds even with modern sound design. Isn't the lack of releases from some established artists the opportunity for newcoming artist to fill the vacuum? It's not like they aren't there.
trippnface Advanced Member
United States
1,654 posts Joined: Jan, 2010
Posted - 2017/03/23 : 02:32:20
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
Not sure what you guys are wining about. The British side of Hardcore never had an original spark since you started calling it UK Hardcore ripping other genres off one by one. Guest is right (ffs that i have to say this): innovation moved to D&B and back to the Netherlands with a few exceptions.
Now american EDM has taken over the dance scene worldwide but you guys are still baffled that UK Hardcore is hard to market outside of the UK. US culture doesn't have this strong "one event one genre" culture that Europe does so from people who get them sets and productions are more diverse.
While in the UK producers rip off Hardstyle as the "newest" thing and make it into UKHC. It's not bad but certainly nothing original.
And over all reside the old guys that are emotionally attached to the older stuff and rightfully skeptical to everything diverting from that. Why don't you leave Gammer et. al. alone doing their thing? Do you really think they will 'devalue' Hardcore that has stolen from Trance, House, Drum & Bass, Hardstyle, Brostep and the List goes on anyway? Is it just the label they put on their music or do you feel betrayed by them, now that they don't love you back anymore?
There are still great Labels like TrackMaster Music that regularly release the uplifting 2010-ish Stuff. KnightForce is till there and doing what it always did. Evolution is still true to the old hardcore sounds even with modern sound design. Isn't the lack of releases from some established artists the opportunity for newcoming artist to fill the vacuum? It's not like they aren't there.
</rant>
i feel alot of what you said; but for me alot of it comes down to really getting sick of having to explain to an endless sea of uneducated ravers ( literally educated in propaganda by Gammer) that trap music is NOT ****ing happy hardcore.
Why can't he just stop?
He is not helping anything or anybody; except maybe confusing and embarassing raver noobs; that will eventually be properly educated. Then it is like finding out someone you look up to lied to you!!
What then Gamz!?!!
One day; all the trap zombies will turn on you?
then; will the hardcore elite you have forsaken choose to raise your humbled being from the ashes of abject failure; in a pure act of unconditonal love!?!?
We will see.
But in the meantime; trap and " EDM" is already dying in the USA; DNB is still going stupid strong; and Psytrance/ trance are the most popular of all. the festie " EDM" kids are very fickle. they change with the wind. Gammer is chasing hype. hype that will be dead; as the fickle dicks become placid once more; and chase the next big thing ( psytrance)
Samination Advanced Member
Sweden
13,073 posts Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
Posted - 2017/03/27 : 16:26:41
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
Not sure what you guys are wining about. The British side of Hardcore never had an original spark since you started calling it UK Hardcore ripping other genres off one by one. Guest is right (ffs that i have to say this): innovation moved to D&B and back to the Netherlands with a few exceptions.
Now american EDM has taken over the dance scene worldwide but you guys are still baffled that UK Hardcore is hard to market outside of the UK. US culture doesn't have this strong "one event one genre" culture that Europe does so from people who get them sets and productions are more diverse.
While in the UK producers rip off Hardstyle as the "newest" thing and make it into UKHC. It's not bad but certainly nothing original.
And over all reside the old guys that are emotionally attached to the older stuff and rightfully skeptical to everything diverting from that. Why don't you leave Gammer et. al. alone doing their thing? Do you really think they will 'devalue' Hardcore that has stolen from Trance, House, Drum & Bass, Hardstyle, Brostep and the List goes on anyway? Is it just the label they put on their music or do you feel betrayed by them, now that they don't love you back anymore?
There are still great Labels like TrackMaster Music that regularly release the uplifting 2010-ish Stuff. KnightForce is till there and doing what it always did. Evolution is still true to the old hardcore sounds even with modern sound design. Isn't the lack of releases from some established artists the opportunity for newcoming artist to fill the vacuum? It's not like they aren't there.
</rant>
rafftery, is that you? :P
Anyways, a few years ago Hardstyle (which isn't Hardstyle if you ask purists) took elements that UK Hardcore had used years before that, so whos' copying who actually? :P
__________________________________
---------------------------------------------
Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber http://samination.se/ ---------------------------------------------
latininxtc Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts Joined: Feb, 2006
Posted - 2017/03/28 : 13:22:28
Totally missed them when they were here on Thursday. Was busy packing. Even if I wasn't I probably wouldn't have gone anyways. Saw footage of their event here and good to see that they had a decent crowd. They added a stop in Dallas, which is about 4hrs from Houston and a lot of those folks were already planning the drive from there to here.
Smoogie Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,480 posts Joined: Mar, 2006
Posted - 2017/03/29 : 18:12:53
Well Styles, Breeze and Gammer where big a few years ago now so I doubt they would want to make the exactly the same stuff as they where making back in 2005!
I will have to give some of these 'new' styles of Hardcore a listen some time but at this precise moment I am just listening to Hard House which has developed it's own sound against the old stuff without going too far off the mar:
oh no. looks like i am not the only on who gets pissed for paying to hear A CERTAIN TYPE OF MUSIC; and they play something ****ing else entirely.
# deserved it
Sounds like your stuck in the past and need to move with the times. If you got into hardcore in the 2000s, it was never real hardcore in the first place. Is just a rippoff of trance riffs sped up at 170bpm. So now when the genre is evolving again your complaining that it is not real? Dude your hardcore was never real. Proper traditional hardcore is labels like Hectic, Fusion, Impact Records, Just Another Label. So unless you were into hardcore at this time, you basically have no reason to complain.
So many hardcore names are getting influence from edm/dubstep/trap/hardstyle/electo and hiphop. Why do you want to only pick on just Gammer?
At the end of the day most hardcore djs have well and truly moved on from Ian Van Dahl remixes. Darren Styles, Mark Breeze, Alex Prospect, Dougal, Clarkey, Klubfiller, Mob, Gammer, Chris Unknown, Iyf, Macks Wolf, Recon. Are all pushing the newer sounds and doing it very well.
And at the end of the day, these djs are still getting crowds dancing with their evolved sounds. So looks like your in the minority with your complaining.
Impulse_Response Advanced Member
United States
724 posts Joined: Jun, 2013
Posted - 2017/03/31 : 16:47:33
Hi Rafferty, musical progress means only that something changed. It doesn't mean that the change is good. At the end of the day, regardless of how hardcore used to sound, most EDM is crap and EDM hardcore is crap. It is flat-out crap regardless of what styles hardcore ripped off in the past. At least the trance riffs were good.
These are my thoughts, at least. Obviously music is subjective and people should play what they like.
EDIT: Changed wording to clarify that my post is a statement to Rafferty rather than a statement about him.
__________________________________
Producers and record labels, please stop "loudness war" mastering everything. It sounds terrible.
Alert moderatorEdited by - Impulse_Response on 2017/03/31 17:13:20
Elliott Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts Joined: May, 2012
Posted - 2017/03/31 : 17:09:08
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
To Rafferty, musical progress means only that something changed. It doesn't mean that the change is good. At the end of the day, regardless of how hardcore used to sound, most EDM is crap and EDM hardcore is crap. It is flat-out crap regardless of what styles hardcore ripped off in the past. At least the trance riffs were good.
These are my thoughts, at least. Obviously music is subjective and people should play what they like.
Exactly. "Shut up and enjoy it" is Gammer logic.
__________________________________ old soundcloud
i gave up producing
rafferty Advanced Member
United Kingdom
621 posts Joined: Feb, 2012
Posted - 2017/03/31 : 21:49:17
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
Hi Rafferty, musical progress means only that something changed. It doesn't mean that the change is good. At the end of the day, regardless of how hardcore used to sound, most EDM is crap and EDM hardcore is crap. It is flat-out crap regardless of what styles hardcore ripped off in the past. At least the trance riffs were good.
These are my thoughts, at least. Obviously music is subjective and people should play what they like.
EDIT: Changed wording to clarify that my post is a statement to Rafferty rather than a statement about him.
Trance riffs are over used. Like do you really want to keep rehashing the same old shit for another 15 years. Is way too stale.
It kind of amuses me how Scott Brown calls his label evolution records when he has not evolved in 15 years. Still signing the same old Hard Trance sound at hardcore speed.
All I can say is thank fark for all the hardcore produces that are making fresh sounding hardcore with influences from edm & hardstyle. Because rehashing Trance from over a decade ago is just insulting peoples intelligence and won't bring the scene any new fans.
Elliott Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,137 posts Joined: May, 2012
Posted - 2017/03/31 : 22:25:01
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
Hi Rafferty, musical progress means only that something changed. It doesn't mean that the change is good. At the end of the day, regardless of how hardcore used to sound, most EDM is crap and EDM hardcore is crap. It is flat-out crap regardless of what styles hardcore ripped off in the past. At least the trance riffs were good.
These are my thoughts, at least. Obviously music is subjective and people should play what they like.
EDIT: Changed wording to clarify that my post is a statement to Rafferty rather than a statement about him.
Trance riffs are over used. Like do you really want to keep rehashing the same old shit for another 15 years. Is way too stale.
It kind of amuses me how Scott Brown calls his label evolution records when he has not evolved in 15 years. Still signing the same old Hard Trance sound at hardcore speed.
All I can say is thank fark for all the hardcore produces that are making fresh sounding hardcore with influences from edm & hardstyle. Because rehashing Trance from over a decade ago is just insulting peoples intelligence and won't bring the scene any new fans.
Hardcore's most popular era in the UK outside of the '90s was when it was at its cheesiest and tranciest. In case you haven't noticed, the new sound isn't exactly winning fans here. The net movement of fans in and out of the scene has heavily favoured the "out" direction ever since the big guys started ****ing around with the sound.
Maybe sacrificing the UK in pursuit of the US is considered a worthy tradeoff by Gammer, Styles and co but let's not pretend that it isn't what it is. Event attendance, music sales and online interest are objectively at their lowest point since probably the turn of the century. Whatever it is that was supposed to happen hasn't happened. The "plan", if there was one, has failed -- at least in the UK.
The funny thing is that everyone followed the big boys down this road when it's practically suicidal for all but the top tier. Who's getting the bookings in the US? It sure as hell isn't your average producer. They helped sabotage the UK scene in a naive hunt for a piece of a pie that's never going to materialise.
I can't answer for anyone else but, yeah, I'd have liked it if they'd carried on "rehashing the same old shit". Also get your timeframes right. The golden era of hardcore wasn't anything close to 15 years long. It was about half that, maybe. There was plenty of change and evolution during the '00s as well. It wasn't as drastic as the transition between happy hardcore and UK hardcore but still obvious to anyone who knows the era.
Don't even get me started on the Scott Brown comment. So it's not enough for you that 95% of the old guard are now producing this hollow EDM trainwreck? Are we not allowed to have any artists still producing our preferred style? It just seems like an odd thing to bitch about. I would've thought diversity would be welcomed and, if anything, your lot should be feeling pretty happy right now. You already won. No need to take away our scraps.
__________________________________ old soundcloud
i gave up producing
Gammer styles breeze etc new sound
Printer friendly
Posted - 2017/03/22 : 23:09:58
