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 Music discussion - hardcore
 News: PAID - Producers Against Illegal Downloads
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silver
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Japan
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  06:04:41  Show profile View artist profile Send a private message  Visit silver's homepage View the linked resource
Taken from the news page:

A new organisation called PAID, short for Producers Against Illegal Downloads started last week. Taken from the press release:

In this day and age of high speed internet connections and Internet piracy, one things that has suffered badly is the music industry. From major labels having to drop artists and sack employees to independents going bust and up-and-coming artists giving up, things seem to be going from bad to worse. The biggest problem is that the hardcore scene is that we have limited sales to start with, now we have the added danger of having to contend with illegal download sites and p2p file sharing. We're all aware that 'some' amount of copying will take place, it always had, but if something isn't done about illegal sharing sites, it could take on an even bigger scale which would inevitably put the labels and writers of the music out of business.

The is why we've formed the organization 'PAID', open to anyone who address something should be done, not just the 'big players'. This isn't a case of taking everyone to court for having an illegal copy, but more of a deterrent. We have to safeguard out futures and our scene which we all love and want to continue to grow. If we continue to allow unscrupulous web sites to set up and charge money for illegal copies then no money will be coming into the scene and producers (established and newcomers) will consequently move onto something else.

There are many good, genuine people in the hardcore scene who religiously buy every CD, Vinyl or legal download out there, illegal file-sharing and downloading will directly affect them if the industry cases to generate money. No new records will be made, CD production will stop and ultimately Hardcore events will dry up. Non of us want this to happen, and hopefully 'PAID' will help prevent that.

Please, we ask you, don't illegally download hardcore.

For more information check: www.p-a-i-d.org
or alternatively, email us on info@p-a-i-d.org


PAID press release


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Ravine
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Australia
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  09:18:25  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Ravine's homepage
Here's something i came across when i was reading PC Authority the other week...
I found it quite interesting even though i buy all my music legally from Beatport.com (God, imo and trackitdown are 2x more expensive than that place)


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Underloop
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  10:01:55  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Underloop's homepage
Ravine, the view in that letter is very blinkered to say the least. PAID isn't set up to protect the likes of Sony/BMG and certainly not the RIAA (in my opinion the RIAA is doing more to damage the music industry than the pirates themselves, but thats another story...)

I know plenty of artists in the scene and in other scenes, and all are suffering. These are independent artists, not Britney Spears, Madonna etc. I remember talking with a friend of mine round about this time last year who has been releasing records for about 15 years now if my maths is correct. He has had to start licensing tracks with no advance. This was unheard of a few years back. The fact is, in an industry where a record will probably shift 150 copies if your lucky, if you lose 20% of that to illegal downloads then its the difference between profit and loss.

Also remember that the artist is the last in the chain for getting paid. All label expenses usually come out of any record income first, so where the label *may* break even (I'm talking bigger labels here as smaller labels often have fairer terms - and not necessarily the Hardcore scene) the artist may not.

I'm in full support of this PAID organisation. Its about time Hardcore stood up united against those who rape so much from the scene but give nothing back in return


__________________________________
"We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw


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silver
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Japan
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  10:02:07  Show profile View artist profile  Send a private message  Visit silver's homepage
^^ hardcore aint hollywood :)



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Ravine
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Australia
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  10:05:30  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Ravine's homepage
Yeah it was just an interesting read so i thought i'd post it =).

Of course i knew it was biased towards the mega mega stars and obviously the post didn't focus on the music industry but moreso on DVDs and movie bigshots.

I used to be one of them people who downloads their music etc etc but hey, once i got a job and access to a credit card, i'm clean.

Piracy was just a phase for me.


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bulby_g
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  10:49:36  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit bulby_g's homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:


I'm in full support of this PAID organisation. Its about time Hardcore stood up united against those who rape so much from the scene but give nothing back in return



Same here, it's good to see something has been set up at last. If they want to make the difference they will really need to stick their necks out though... Most people think that illegally downloading things is a victimless crime.


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Edited by - bulby_g on 2006/07/11 10:50:41
Chris Goldfinger
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  10:52:59  Show profile  Send a private message
I'll stick my hands up to downloading tunes!!!!

however i only download them to hear them, i've bought a few vinyl from various place

www.recess.nl
www.freaky.nl
www.chemical-records.co.uk
www.juno.co.uk
www.htfr.com
shop.happyhardcore.com

these are the stores i normally use, and over the years i've bought a few s*it tunes thanks to them only giving you a 1 min or so preview of the track

so what i do now is download the track and if i lkie the tune i go and buy it if not a delete the tune

i know some of you will take a dim view of this but if i hadn't actally heard the full tune alot of the time i simply wouldn't have bought the vinyl, i've heard so many samples on the above mentioned sites and thought the tune was crap or not that good but on hearing the full tune i've relised that they have just recorded the s*it bit of the tune (ie the breakdown or cheesey vocals, keeping in mind i normally play hardstyle)

basically my point is if i couldn't download the tunes although i'd still be buying vinyl i don't think it would be anywhere the amount that i buy at present therefore it would be losing the artist money!!


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Edited by - Chris Goldfinger on 2006/07/11 10:53:39
The Deviant
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  11:03:39  Show profile  Send a private message
You have got to think about who and why some of these people are going down the illegal download route. If you have a young teenager who doesn't have a credit card and they can't borrow their parents, and they want a tune that's not on the latest bonkers or whatever hardcore compilation, then illegal downloads are they only way they can get it. Im not saying it's ok to download illegally, but there are times when peolple who have money, have no way to pay for things.



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bulby_g
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  11:20:13  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit bulby_g's homepage
If that was the case though why are they downloading full copies of albums like Bonkers that are available everywhere? It doesn't matter if they have no way to pay for things anyway it doesn't make it acceptable to steal... I have no money for a new car but that doesn't mean I have a right to own one and should just go out and steal it. At the end of the day you can't have everything you want, it's life tuff shit.

End of the day though most people who download stuff are either stingy, uneducated about the negative effects of illegal file sharing or too lazy to go to the shops.

If you like something you should support it.


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danwilco
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Australia
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  12:51:13  Show profile  Send a private message
quote:
Originally posted by bulby_g:
If that was the case though why are they downloading full copies of albums like Bonkers that are available everywhere? It doesn't matter if they have no way to pay for things anyway it doesn't make it acceptable to steal... I have no money for a new car but that doesn't mean I have a right to own one and should just go out and steal it. At the end of the day you can't have everything you want, it's life tuff shit.

End of the day though most people who download stuff are either stingy, uneducated about the negative effects of illegal file sharing or too lazy to go to the shops.

If you like something you should support it.



Not neccesarily, where ever i go i can not find any bonkers cd's, i can not find hardcore, i found hardcore nation 1, at a 10 buck shop in sydney, its the only hardcore cd ive found, no matter how many cd shops i look in, nothing . . . it seriously sucks, nd being a teenager with no money, i cant buy off the net, it just doesnt work . . . I'd honestly prefer to buy my music, i seriously would . . .but atm i cant, its not the rite thing i know, i'll buy all the music bask once i get the money, i hate taking from sumthing i love so much . . . sounds cheesy but its true, lol . . .


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The Deviant
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  13:00:57  Show profile  Send a private message
Bulby, You missed my point completely. There are people out there who can afford to buy the music, but they don't have a way to pay for it, ie: no credit card for an online transaction. BTW im talking about single track downloads.

It's not right for them to do it, but in their eyes, their action is justified.

I aggre with what you say here,

Quote Bulby: "End of the day though most people who download stuff are either stingy, uneducated about the negative effects of illegal file sharing or too lazy to go to the shops. "

But sometimes not everything is black or white.


The main problem isn't the internet and the way music is now brought to us, it's the majority of next generations complete lack of morals.


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bulby_g
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  13:22:26  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit bulby_g's homepage
Yeah I did see your point I just think they should either get a bank account, pay someone else to use their credit card or miss out TBH. It's up to said producer how he wants to bring things to people and if this means it's not available to some people tuff tits to them really. Anyway I'm sure you can send a postal order to IMO and prob nu-energy too...

Everything isn't black and white because it's clouded with bad excuses justifying stealing.

"The main problem isn't the internet and the way music is now brought to us, it's the majority of next generations complete lack of morals".

Yeah I agree with that completely mate.

@ danwilco - Why exactly can't you buy off the internet? And if you haven't got the money for something you can't/shouldn't have it.

I know people say why would I care I'm not losing money or having anything stolen from me so why moan etc. Well... I want hardcore music to continue with professionally engineered releases etc and at the rate it's going it's looking less and less likely.


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NAz
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  14:23:55  Show profile  Send a private message
I think at the end of the day it comes down to peoples collections too. Think about it, someone buys Bonkers 16 and then a CD comes out months later with a similar tracklist but about 10 songs are new, people will just download this new CD because they don't see much point in paying £10 - £15 for something similar they already have.

Also, the price of MP3 downloads is good but cost of vinyls is quite high. MP3 downloads are usually between £1 - £2, this price is good, fairly cheap. But vinyls are about £5 each excluding delivery, I know they cost a lot to produce but some labels are refusing to release as MP3s (raverbaby a good one) which makes people download from p2p, IRC, BT.

I personally think that all labels should look to maybe releasing on MP3 as this will make their songs more available and less waiting time for damn vinyl.

But then again if MP3 took over people would be complaining about vinyl dying out.

NAz


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Samination
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  14:46:45  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Samination's homepage
haha, this is defo not a USH net thread. cause then there would be someone bashed, but then, compaired to USH, if I wanted to confess that I share hardcore, my post/username would be deleted/banned... (I hate it when MOds to that just to make the site look 'clean'...)

I wont lie, I'm a pirate, but my "activity" has gone down alot since I started to buy Hardcore (Vinyl/CD, and especially MP3/Digital)


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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Edited by - Samination on 2006/07/11 14:48:25
Underloop
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  14:49:51  Show profile  Send a private message  Visit Underloop's homepage
Is it only me that has heard of Paypal then? Its a fantastic tool which anyone with a bank account can use, and is accepted in a number of stores including IMO, HappyHardcore.com, All-4-1 and more! In fact any store that doesn't have it can integrate it quite easily in most cases if they know people want it! Just ask them!

As for not being able to afford to buy on the net.... huh? I find physical shops about the same price. Yes its more when you start ordering internationally, but the big CDs and releases are available in the majority of countries, including UK, US, Mainland Europe, Ireland, Australia, Japan etc so you can order domestically. In fact, just as a check I just checked how much it would be to buy Bonkers 16 from IMO and have it shipped to Australia from the UK. The total price came to £13.75. I bought my copy from Woolworths the other day for £12.99 I think it was (about that price anyway)...... only 76p difference! Would be cheaper to other countries (Europe etc)

So, just goes to show if you look around you can get round the "must download as can't buy on net" myth ;-)


__________________________________
"We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw


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XtarsiA
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/07/11 :  14:53:11  Show profile  Send a private message
i find it EASYER and more convenient to BUY my music than download it lol

plus its nice having a HHC "shelf" :D


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http://www.myspace.com/XtarsiA




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