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barkley
Starting Member
Norway
3 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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 Posted - 2006/07/12 : 13:20:01
Does anyone know if the profit for a hardcore artist has going down in the last few years? Do they sell less vinyl? Or is this something that have been for many years?
I don´t think the piracy is the biggest problem here. Maybe it will be a few more sales of leagal hardcore tunes if there was no piracy but not that much.
But the labels can´t think that people that´s not are djs are going to buy vinyls of single tunes. Myself don´t find it that funny to lissten to single tunes with intro and outro.
Does cds like Bonkers and Hardcore Heaven series gives much money to the artists? I can think that they will sell much more then single tunes. Why don´t the labels realese more of this with their tunes on? Like Scott Brown with his Hardwired and 10 years of hardcore. I think that is a great idea and more will buy this.
I´m not saying to stop doing vinyls. This is a great was for the labels to get their tunes out. Many ppl are hearing their favorit tune for the first times at raves.
I also think that all labels should get their tunes out on mp3. Cd players are raising in sales and it´s the future.
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bulby_g
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts
Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 13:28:41
^^^ Obviously no one knows £profit figures but yes the labels are selling less records and struggling to keep afloat. There is (as of yet) no evidence to say that decent money can be made from MP3 downloads of hardcore music. If you read the topic you'll see that an average hardcore MP3 sells 30 odd, that's what £45 hardly worth the time that a producer has to put in at the studio to get a release out is it? Yes compilations make far more money than single releases, label compilations are a good way to go I guess... Wont solve the problem of how to get out single releases though.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Deeside:
its to do with cd decks an up to now there wernt anywere ya cud buy cd's or download legal mp3s , theyve only recently popped up. cd's r slowly overtakin vinyl.
Would be a sound argument if sales of legal MP3's were decent... There isn't really many unmixed CD's out there so I don't think you could put it down to that TBH. It may well be the CDJ that is killing off vinyl sales but this isn't the problem, the problem is no money is being made anywhere because these people are using illegal downloads. The death of vinyl is inevitable but what's going to happen when it dies and there is no money to be made from mp3 sales? No one will be able to put out singles so there will be no unmixed "commercial release" music to play for any smaller DJ's. Now some chin strokers may like this idea but for those that like any big label inc. things like RBC, EVO, EP, QUOSH, Nu-Energy, TNC etc and even smaller labels that offer something a bit different like Bedlam and RFU tis very bad news indeed.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris B:
And with vinyl i didnt stop buyin uk hardcore cos of downloads or cdjays (dont have one), it's because i dont like the sound anymore. It changed as things do and now isnt what i like at all, and for all the new people getting into hardcore i no a lot of people who used to plough a lot of money into vinyl have now gone off it now.
That's fair enough mate why buy something that you don't like there's no point... However I do think for all the people that have stopped listening to hardcore twice as many have started so the drop in sales is not justified. I have nothing against people downloading and buying what they like, can't see that as a problem.
I think it would help if the top guys started using vinyl decks again as allot of the bedroom DJ's like to follow what they do.
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Edited by - bulby_g on 2006/07/12 13:59:13 |
Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,073 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 13:59:55
quote:
Originally posted by The Deviant:
I have chosen not to download music purley because of audio quality. Does anyone else think that mp3 is a step back, 192khz is just taking the piss.
Only one actually that sells Wave files (closest to, if not CD-quality for Windows systems) are Track It Down, but not many of the hardcore labels that release tracks there are doing it...
quote:
Originally posted by bulby_g:
Let them register and let them speak for themselves... and Piracy really cant be the largest problem
See above. Sure Piracy isn't the only problem but it's definitely one of the problems... You could say blad de bla bla it's the crap releases, but what makes you think a good release wouldn't get shared as much or even more?
If the release is crap? why would I even download it illegally? that's the only thing I'm going against you on your reply to my post.
Nothing from my post earlier are facts, only what I think and have noticed, on both hardcore chatrooms, aswell as on places where you can get hardcore illegally
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Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
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Edited by - Samination on 2006/07/12 14:04:19 |
Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,964 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 14:04:03
quote:
Originally posted by bulby_g:
quote:
Originally posted by Chris B:
And with vinyl i didnt stop buyin uk hardcore cos of downloads or cdjays (dont have one), it's because i dont like the sound anymore. It changed as things do and now isnt what i like at all, and for all the new people getting into hardcore i no a lot of people who used to plough a lot of money into vinyl have now gone off it now.
However I do think for all the people that have stopped listening to hardcore twice as many have started so the drop in sales is not justified.
Aye illegal downloads is definitely a big part of why sales have dropped, is pretty obvious that most people wont pay for something they can get for free.
And your right about loadsa people getting into hardcore, theres defo been more raves the last year or two and people into it.
But if it's cd's they can get for free most arent gonna pay for it, some will put money into going to raves and some will buy cd's but most will get a copy off there mate or download it.
The vinyl things a big part of killing the money imo, loadsa people who used to dj uk hardcore dont anymore (like myself). And most people starting will now buy cd-jays and get all there tunes for free.
This doesnt happen the same for other styles, like old school, gabber, dnb and that it's all still vinyl.
My mates wee brothers only 15 jus got his first set of decks and is still vinyl, he's into drum n bass and cd decks are looked down on with them.
I'm not anti cd-jay but i think thats been a big part in sales dropping, it's not as easy to make illegal vinyls and it only gets done to old tunes that people pay daft prices for.
Is a bad situation for people i understand that, there right to try and sort it out and try and change whatever they can.
But is a fact that most people wont buy things they can easily get for free.
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bulby_g
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts
Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 14:09:09
Yeah very true mate. This is why I think the big DJ's mixing vinyl would help no end. People see that they use CDJ's so that's what they buy. I do think that a better solution needs sorting though cus much as I hate to say it (prob cus I have thousands of pouns worth of vinyl) vinyl is dated and will have to go in the end.
Surely files can be encrypted so they can't be copied like they do with PC games?
@ Samination Yeah sorry I didn't put that across very clearly. I meant "crap" as in the people who always moan about UK hardcore wont like it cus they don't like the new sound. The fact is "crap" tunes are more popular.
"Nothing from that post are facts, only what I think and have noticed, on both hardcore chatrooms, aswell as on places where you can get hardcore illegally"
Fair enough. Places that promote illegal downloading are bound to be pro illegal downloads though aren't they ;).
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Edited by - bulby_g on 2006/07/12 14:18:10 |
barkley
Starting Member
Norway
3 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 14:33:12
quote:
Originally posted by bulby_g:
^^^ Obviously no one knows £profit figures but yes the labels are selling less records and struggling to keep afloat. There is (as of yet) no evidence to say that decent money can be made from MP3 downloads of hardcore music. If you read the topic you'll see that an average hardcore MP3 sells 30 odd, that's what £45 hardly worth the time that a producer has to put in at the studio to get a release out is it? Yes compilations make far more money than single releases, label compilations are a good way to go I guess... Wont solve the problem of how to get out single releases though.
The vinyl realese is going to go down however the labels like it or not. They must start thinking diffrent.
I don´t think the artist could live on doing just single hardcore tunes. Hardcore is a small genre with not that much djs playing it.
And I really hope it´s not djs that are downloading vinylripps and playing it out. Surely would sound odd to hear vinylcracks from a cdj.
To live on doing hardcore I think you must sell vinyls, mp3 and mixes on cds.
And also get them easy to get. The big cds like bonkers must get out in stores just not on internet.
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Underloop
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,895 posts
Joined: Mar, 2002
91 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 14:33:20
quote:
Originally posted by bulby_g:
Surely files can be encrypted so they can't be copied like they do with PC games?
Music will be copied as long as you can drag a lead out from the output of your soundcard into the input of the soundcard - you can't encrypt audio, only data unfortunately - have a look round P2P sites/systems and you will see alot of tunes ripped from vinyl and not just CD releases and legally downloaded MP3s.
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we grow old because we stop playing."
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The Deviant
Senior Member
United Kingdom
329 posts
Joined: May, 2004
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 14:35:15
The thing is though, how many of you want to be stuck with encrypted music files, I don't. I like having the freedom to copy music, Such as making backups and a CD for the car.
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bulby_g
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts
Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 14:44:49
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
Music will be copied as long as you can drag a lead out from the output of your soundcard into the input of the soundcard - you can't encrypt audio, only data unfortunately - have a look round P2P sites/systems and you will see alot of tunes ripped from vinyl and not just CD releases and legally downloaded MP3s.
Ah yeah of course.
quote:
Originally posted by The Deviant:
The thing is though, how many of you want to be stuck with encrypted music files, I don't. I like having the freedom to copy music, Such as making backups and a CD for the car.
Wouldn't bother me TBH I can never be arsed to back up my CD's and my copy for my car is my only copy as I don't have a cd player in my room :) Can see how it'd be a problem for some I guess though yeah.
quote:
Originally posted by barkley:
The vinyl realese is going to go down however the labels like it or not. They must start thinking diffrent.
I don´t think the artist could live on doing just single hardcore tunes. Hardcore is a small genre with not that much djs playing it.
And I really hope it´s not djs that are downloading vinylripps and playing it out. Surely would sound odd to hear vinylcracks from a cdj.
To live on doing hardcore I think you must sell vinyls, mp3 and mixes on cds.
And also get them easy to get. The big cds like bonkers must get out in stores just not on internet.
People definitely do play ripped hardcore tunes out live at events and on the web I can tell you that for sure. While I agree with you in part... if they're making a loss from vinyl sales why sell them? It's not even worth putting out an MP3 so why sell them? If things don't improve it's likely that single releases will stop and it will all be albums. Not good for the small time or bedroom DJ ey.
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Edited by - bulby_g on 2006/07/12 14:49:18 |
1up
Advanced Member
Australia
1,091 posts
Joined: Jan, 2005
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 14:57:10
speaking of encrypted music i think i may have a solution! or part of the solution.
if vinyls are loosing sales then the music industry might have to make a new music medium for the recordings of their work.
something more advanced than the typical cd. something that will play but the music cant be "stolen".
a remake of the vinyl? i dont know exactly. maybe vinyl needs to become popular again. maybe the turntables need to be redeveloped for the new demanding market. maybe record players need to be more simpler and cheaper so the market can actually afford to buy and use one.
really, this whole concept is hard to think up, but if we were to create a new medium, things just might change abit.
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Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,964 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 15:01:51
quote:
Originally posted by bulby_g:
I do think that a better solution needs sorting though cus much as I hate to say it (prob cus I have thousands of pouns worth of vinyl) vinyl is dated and will have to go in the end.
Aye i do agree but it wont be for a while, not sure about uk hardcore but in some of the styles i said above it's a culture thing and is still a few years before i can see vinyl stopping in them.
Was chatting to someone about this last night actually and is seems true that it's the big dj's people are following.
In the north east none play with cd-jays and the up n comings all still want vinyl, same as down here for drum n bass basically.
But your right that isnt gonna solve things permanently and has already gone too far, cant hold back on technology things always change.
I'm not gonna pretend i no what im talking about with the lables and that, but i just dont see much changing with people downloading.
Is a good thing if some people start to buy there stuff though so they've gotta try, just i'm not that confident when it's so easy to get for free
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bulby_g
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts
Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 15:10:39
quote:
Originally posted by Chris B:
it wont be for a while, not sure about uk hardcore but in some of the styles i said above it's a culture thing and is still a few years before i can see vinyl stopping in them.
Yeah I agree, other genres (and sub-genres of hardcore even) definitely have a long way to go before vinyl dies.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris B:
Is a good thing if some people start to buy there stuff though so they've gotta try, just i'm not that confident when it's so easy to get for free
Nah not gonna be easy at all.
Maybe more tracks like the cilit bang one will come out paid for by the company they're sampling ;) Advertunes could be the way forward for music!
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Edited by - bulby_g on 2006/07/12 15:11:44 |
Orbit1
Senior Member
Australia
400 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 16:08:30
The fact is that all labels have suffered losses when it comes to moving vinyl units. I know we can't always pin it on piracy, but I believe that it has a lot to do with it.
The problem is the attitude of the people, if people didn't freeload and demand to get their music hassle-free and money free, then we wouldn't be in this mess.
As far as I'm concerned its the same as the drug problem - demand will always dictate supply. Because less people can be bothered to go to great lengths to get the songs they like, less units are sold. People are being more arrogant now saying - if you don't give me the music I want my way, then I'll pirate it. Thats not right at all.
What happened to the good old days of saving up and buying a cheap turntable just to listen to the tunes?
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barkley
Starting Member
Norway
3 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 16:57:42
quote:
Originally posted by Orbit1:
What happened to the good old days of saving up and buying a cheap turntable just to listen to the tunes?
What happends to the time when the whole family was sitting around their radio and listening to the worldcup?
Technology are moving forward...
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slik_stylez
Junior Member
United Kingdom
120 posts
Joined: Feb, 2005
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Posted - 2006/07/12 : 17:02:50
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Nirvana put a stop to Napster when it was free? Napster was down for ages and then it suddenly came back and you had to pay to download music.
Couldn't enough of us (with enough money?) do something like that?
Slik
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