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choonland
Advanced Member
Colombia
1,100 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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 Posted - 2009/09/17 : 23:37:27
i know must of us complain about how there is so many bad songs coming out in the present, and how hardcore is in crisis... etc.
but while listening bonkers, i've been thinking that perhaps the proportion bad-tracks/good-tracks has always been the same
i mean, bonkers without any doubt has the most memorable tracks of all time, and thats why we love it... but you have to admit that there is a lot of crap tunes in there too
and i can't imagine how many worst tunes never got to be in the bonkers series
so what im saying is that, yeah, the past gave us great tracks, but don't forget the ugly cousin tunes
there has been crap, there is crap, and there will be crap
so stop saying the past was better, or that hardcore is in crisis
:P
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Edited by - choonland on 2009/09/17 23:39:53 |
acidfluxxbass
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
5,000 posts
Joined: Apr, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/17 : 23:45:53
quote:
Originally posted by Naturatech:
i know must of us complain about how there is so many bad songs coming out in the present, and how hardcore is in crisis... etc.
but while listening bonkers, i've been thinking that perhaps the proportion bad-tracks/good-tracks has always been the same
i mean, bonkers without any doubt has the most memorable tracks of all time, and thats why we love it... but you have to admit that there is a lot of crap tunes in there too
and i can't imagine how many worst tunes never got to be in the bonkers series
so what im saying is that, yeah, the past gave us great tracks, but don't forget the ugly cousin tunes
there has been crap, there is crap, and there will be crap
so stop saying the past was better, or that hardcore is in crisis
:P
no more mr. nice naturatech, hey!
I agree with some, disagree with some...
To be honest, I think my heart lies more with 2000-2006 hardcore rather than the newer stuff. Though, thats not to say some tracks don't impress me, because my god some of them take me to ear-candy paradise.
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SPOOX
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United Kingdom
2,644 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 00:20:15
It's not so much about crap now or crap back in the day. Hardcore ain't the same anymore. The older stuff from mid 90's for example is soooo much more uplifting. You can't help but get up and jump about like a bell end. Today's stuff just sounds far too dull & i find myself listening to less of the new stuff every day.
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MAtRiCks
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Canada
1,059 posts
Joined: Sep, 2006
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 01:13:42
quote:
Originally posted by SPOOX:
It's not so much about crap now or crap back in the day. Hardcore ain't the same anymore. The older stuff from mid 90's for example is soooo much more uplifting. You can't help but get up and jump about like a bell end. Today's stuff just sounds far too dull & i find myself listening to less of the new stuff every day.
That is all very subjective. I personally don't agree, and find this comment irrelevant.
I think it comes down to how selective memory can be.
Of course, everybody only remembers the songs they liked, the songs that left a mark for them and touched them. They won't remember all the crappy tracks that came out because they couldn't care less and let's be honest, there's way too much.
In the end, we are all left with the impression that there used to be only amazing songs coming out in the past and that every single release was mindblowing, while the truth is there has always been crappy/boring/cheap/uninspired songs coming out.
Then, as true enthusiasts, we pay attention to everything that comes out at the moment, and obviously we can't like everything. This percentage of stuff we don't like in modern Hardcore (I also believe this theory applies to everything and anything) seems significant compared to the nothing we remember from the bad stuff that came out in the past.
That's when you have to use your brain and rationalize, to avoid falling for this false impression. Of course, some people just prefer complaining forever about how bas hardcore has become, and about how the old stuff used to be so much better!
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Edited by - MAtRiCks on 2009/09/18 01:14:29 |
Trimms
Senior Member
United States
494 posts
Joined: Aug, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 01:20:55
This is true for every genre of music.
People just like to say "hardcore sucks!!"
It probably makes Darwin cry.
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Rayovac
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United States
2,049 posts
Joined: Jan, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 01:32:10
To be honest, most genres suffer from this. To find the gems, you have to do some digging! I mean, just for an example, mainstream rap/hip-hop mostly consists of wanna-be gangster and insidiously stupid crap. When you look at the underground stuff though, the jump on the quality scale is staggering. Not that I'm a fan of rap and hip-hop, but I can appreciate songs that have had true creativity and effort put into them.
quote:
Originally posted by Trimms:
It probably makes creative, talented hardcore artists who actually care about the scene cry.
Fixed that for you.
Not dissing Darwin obviously; he's in that group!
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TheOneNOnly
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United States
1,937 posts
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 01:40:20
quote:
Originally posted by SPOOX:
It's not so much about crap now or crap back in the day. Hardcore ain't the same anymore. The older stuff from mid 90's for example is soooo much more uplifting. You can't help but get up and jump about like a bell end. Today's stuff just sounds far too dull & i find myself listening to less of the new stuff every day.
I disagree.
It seems you're talking mostly commercial, now.
A lot of the underground, really not heard of artists, pump out some good hardcore tracks.
You can't just take the stuff being pumped out constantly and say that's EVERYTHING.
I agree with the above post, all genre's have all that shitty commercial bull that sells to people, then you dig and find all the underground artists. All of the untainted, you could say, artists doing it because they love to. Because they love making music, and pump out tunes they make from just pure creativity.
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Edited by - TheOneNOnly on 2009/09/18 01:42:41 |
MAtRiCks
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Canada
1,059 posts
Joined: Sep, 2006
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 01:57:34
quote:
Originally posted by TheOneNOnly:
quote:
Originally posted by SPOOX:
It's not so much about crap now or crap back in the day. Hardcore ain't the same anymore. The older stuff from mid 90's for example is soooo much more uplifting. You can't help but get up and jump about like a bell end. Today's stuff just sounds far too dull & i find myself listening to less of the new stuff every day.
I disagree.
It seems you're talking mostly commercial, now.
A lot of the underground, really not heard of artists, pump out some good hardcore tracks.
You can't just take the stuff being pumped out constantly and say that's EVERYTHING.
I agree with the above post, all genre's have all that shitty commercial bull that sells to people, then you dig and find all the underground artists. All of the untainted, you could say, artists doing it because they love to. Because they love making music, and pump out tunes they make from just pure creativity.
Exactly where in his post do you see any mention about commercialism? He doesn't like modern Hardcore, that's his prerogative, but you seem to be changing the meaning of his post, and interpreting it completely wrong.
Besides, there are loads of crappy/cheap/boring/uninspired stuff coming out on the underground and amateur side of Hardcore as well. A lot of upcoming artists churn out as much stuff as they can, just to get better technically and musically. A lot of the experiment ensued is not even worth a full listen.
This seems to be turning into another Underground vs Mainstream debate. This is irrelevant to the subject of this thread, which is the Old vs the New.
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Edited by - MAtRiCks on 2009/09/18 02:03:42 |
Trimms
Senior Member
United States
494 posts
Joined: Aug, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 01:59:51
quote:
Originally posted by Rayovac:
To be honest, most genres suffer from this. To find the gems, you have to do some digging! I mean, just for an example, mainstream rap/hip-hop mostly consists of wanna-be gangster and insidiously stupid crap. When you look at the underground stuff though, the jump on the quality scale is staggering. Not that I'm a fan of rap and hip-hop, but I can appreciate songs that have had true creativity and effort put into them.
quote:
Originally posted by Trimms:
It probably makes creative, talented hardcore artists who actually care about the scene cry.
Fixed that for you.
Not dissing Darwin obviously; he's in that group!
lol I love how we had like the same post.
And yeah that's what I meant, just Darwin is my favorite ;]
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TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 02:52:10
quote:
Originally posted by MAtRiCks:
quote:
Originally posted by TheOneNOnly:
quote:
Originally posted by SPOOX:
It's not so much about crap now or crap back in the day. Hardcore ain't the same anymore. The older stuff from mid 90's for example is soooo much more uplifting. You can't help but get up and jump about like a bell end. Today's stuff just sounds far too dull & i find myself listening to less of the new stuff every day.
I disagree.
It seems you're talking mostly commercial, now.
A lot of the underground, really not heard of artists, pump out some good hardcore tracks.
You can't just take the stuff being pumped out constantly and say that's EVERYTHING.
I agree with the above post, all genre's have all that shitty commercial bull that sells to people, then you dig and find all the underground artists. All of the untainted, you could say, artists doing it because they love to. Because they love making music, and pump out tunes they make from just pure creativity.
Exactly where in his post do you see any mention about commercialism? He doesn't like modern Hardcore, that's his prerogative, but you seem to be changing the meaning of his post, and interpreting it completely wrong.
Besides, there are loads of crappy/cheap/boring/uninspired stuff coming out on the underground and amateur side of Hardcore as well. A lot of upcoming artists churn out as much stuff as they can, just to get better technically and musically. A lot of the experiment ensued is not even worth a full listen.
This seems to be turning into another Underground vs Mainstream debate. This is irrelevant to the subject of this thread, which is the Old vs the New.
When most people even mention Hardcore "now" it's mainly referring to what the big artists have been producing.
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Edited by - TheOneNOnly on 2009/09/18 02:53:00 |
Brian K
Advanced Member
United States
8,663 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
528 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 03:27:01
I can say the past is/was better because I prefered those production sounds/style more =P
for the most part, you can tell what year a hardcore track was produced by the style & samples used in it. there is still hardcore being produced today that I like and most of it uses production styles of the 90s.
I'm not really worried about hardcore being in a 'crisis' as it's gone through 2 of these before.
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choonland
Advanced Member
Colombia
1,100 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 05:57:04
quote:
Originally posted by MAtRiCks:
I think it comes down to how selective memory can be.
Of course, everybody only remembers the songs they liked, the songs that left a mark for them and touched them. They won't remember all the crappy tracks that came out because they couldn't care less and let's be honest, there's way too much.
In the end, we are all left with the impression that there used to be only amazing songs coming out in the past and that every single release was mindblowing, while the truth is there has always been crappy/boring/cheap/uninspired songs coming out.
Then, as true enthusiasts, we pay attention to everything that comes out at the moment, and obviously we can't like everything. This percentage of stuff we don't like in modern Hardcore (I also believe this theory applies to everything and anything) seems significant compared to the nothing we remember from the bad stuff that came out in the past.
That's when you have to use your brain and rationalize, to avoid falling for this false impression. Of course, some people just prefer complaining forever about how bas hardcore has become, and about how the old stuff used to be so much better!
I couldn't have explained it better 
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SPOOX
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United Kingdom
2,644 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 08:39:15
@ Matricks... Not true. I remember the bad choons just as much as the good choons from the earlier days. To be honest there were far less bad choons back then.
@ Trimms... I have never said Hardcore sucks. It's just gone very stale at the moment & i've got bored of they same sounding choons over & over.
Once again. I don't just listen to the mainstream stuff. I listen to ALL types of Hardcore. Yes the lesser known more underground producers are putting out better Hardcore but they still produce just as many poor choons too. It's not just the big names putting out the crap.
The majority of people on this site only began listening to Hardcore from Bonkers 8 or so onwards. No matter how much of the old Hardcore you listen too, i personally think you had to be there at the time to experience how good the scene actually was. It's a million miles away from how it is today. I prefer the older Hardcore & always will because that's what i grew up with.
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snerkler
Senior Member
United Kingdom
461 posts
Joined: Aug, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 08:56:52
quote:
Originally posted by Naturatech:
i know must of us complain about how there is so many bad songs coming out in the present, and how hardcore is in crisis... etc.
but while listening bonkers, i've been thinking that perhaps the proportion bad-tracks/good-tracks has always been the same
i mean, bonkers without any doubt has the most memorable tracks of all time, and thats why we love it... but you have to admit that there is a lot of crap tunes in there too
and i can't imagine how many worst tunes never got to be in the bonkers series
so what im saying is that, yeah, the past gave us great tracks, but don't forget the ugly cousin tunes
there has been crap, there is crap, and there will be crap
so stop saying the past was better, or that hardcore is in crisis
:P
I disagree with a lot of this. Whilst Bonkers had some great tracks, I can't remember a single Bonkers that was full of the best tracks from the time. There were a lot more better tracks around.
Yes there was crap back then and there will always be crap, but I do believe there is a bigger percentage of crap around these days. Back in the early to mid 90's I would go to my local record shop, dig out about 30-40 records, and would end up buying over half of them. Nowadays I'll buy 2 or 3 cos the rest are garbage. Therefore I would come to the conclusion from this that there is a lot more crap out there.
I will always say that the past WAS better, and no-one will ever convince me otherwise. Yes there is the odd excellent track still being released (Feeling High by Slippery Disco is a great example, awesome track), but there are too many people releasing stuff for a quick buck and not bothered about the quality of the music.
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snerkler
Senior Member
United Kingdom
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Joined: Aug, 2008
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 09:05:03
[quoteThat is all very subjective. I personally don't agree, and find this comment irrelevant.
I think it comes down to how selective memory can be.
Of course, everybody only remembers the songs they liked, the songs that left a mark for them and touched them. They won't remember all the crappy tracks that came out because they couldn't care less and let's be honest, there's way too much.
In the end, we are all left with the impression that there used to be only amazing songs coming out in the past and that every single release was mindblowing, while the truth is there has always been crappy/boring/cheap/uninspired songs coming out.
Then, as true enthusiasts, we pay attention to everything that comes out at the moment, and obviously we can't like everything. This percentage of stuff we don't like in modern Hardcore (I also believe this theory applies to everything and anything) seems significant compared to the nothing we remember from the bad stuff that came out in the past.
That's when you have to use your brain and rationalize, to avoid falling for this false impression. Of course, some people just prefer complaining forever about how bas hardcore has become, and about how the old stuff used to be so much better!
[/quote]
Hmmm, I disagree with this somewhat. See my post above as to why I think that there is more crap around these days. Unfortunately I can remember a lot of the crap from the past as much as the tracks I loved, mainly becasue I hated them so much and they got on my nerves.
I still believe there is a much greater percentage of crap around these days. Yes there's probably more tracks being released these days which is why there is more crap, but the overall percentage of crap these days is higher also.
Just my opinion, but I think I've been around for it all to give an informed opinion, and as always I try to be as objective as possible. I don't like slating the music I love. The good thing is that if you're patient and put the effort in you can still find those little gems :-)
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Smoogie
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United Kingdom
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Joined: Mar, 2006
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Posted - 2009/09/18 : 09:25:23
Didn't hear any crap on Bonkers 1? (except Fairground & Wonderland lol)
I only listened to Sharkey's mix on Bonkers 18. Not got round to the others yet & I have had it a month lol
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