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arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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 Posted - 2017/04/24 : 11:37:01
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrax:
quote:
Originally posted by MC Deecee:
I'm actually shocked that anybody, let alone multiple people were stupid brave enough to part with 100 notes a head for an album, its one hell of a gamble, especially as he hasnt had anything to do with hardcore for what, a decade? the whole concept behind this seems absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion anyway.
It's all proportionate to how much you value a product/service, because I'm making shed loads from Freeform I usually spend 100 quid down the pub over the weekend, so in this case it's best to put it into new music projects.
Haha that's so true, I often think of things in terms of how much wreckage it would equate to and usually it makes the proposition seem totally reasonable. Ridiculous when you think about it really, I'd love to have that money back.
Btw, he's just sent an email out - it's done, final payment required by 8th May! :D
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soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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Cyrax
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
623 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2017/04/24 : 12:46:36
quote:
Originally posted by arpz:
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrax:
quote:
Originally posted by MC Deecee:
I'm actually shocked that anybody, let alone multiple people were stupid brave enough to part with 100 notes a head for an album, its one hell of a gamble, especially as he hasnt had anything to do with hardcore for what, a decade? the whole concept behind this seems absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion anyway.
It's all proportionate to how much you value a product/service, because I'm making shed loads from Freeform I usually spend 100 quid down the pub over the weekend, so in this case it's best to put it into new music projects.
Haha that's so true, I often think of things in terms of how much wreckage it would equate to and usually it makes the proposition seem totally reasonable. Ridiculous when you think about it really, I'd love to have that money back.
Btw, he's just sent an email out - it's done, final payment required by 8th May! :D
very excited now, there's a Robbie long collab and a Brisk one, we know his production is top notch so I'm fairly optimistic
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Vladel
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,514 posts
Joined: Feb, 2008
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Posted - 2017/04/24 : 20:16:31
I still think he is a dick for not just completing and releasing an album the normal way.
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remain calm do not be alarmed do not attempt to leave the dancefloor
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djDMS
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2017/04/24 : 20:23:37
Would he sell a thousand copies or more at a tenner each?
Probably not
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Taking my time to perfect the beat
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2017/04/24 : 20:40:04
Ultimately it's someone releasing an actual full fledged hardcore album. I'll lay odds on it being really good, too.
CDJay
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Edited by - CDJay on 2017/04/25 09:51:43 |
Vladel
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,514 posts
Joined: Feb, 2008
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Posted - 2017/04/24 : 20:52:16
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
Would he sell a thousand copies or more at a tenner each?
Probably not
Probably not but at least he wouldn't have been a dick. Besides if it was just about money, he could have just set a target of 10K and let people pledge until release day and then everyone would have been able to afford it. I don't get the whole exclusivity thing to be honest as it's music not a car, its made to be heard and played. I would have gone in i think with some others to bring the price down had the opportunity presented itself as i really like hardcore and i thought Ham was a good producer back in the day.
I just think he could have done it all a lot better and a lot fairer.
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remain calm do not be alarmed do not attempt to leave the dancefloor
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Edited by - Vladel on 2017/04/24 21:14:49 |
Jacco
Average Member
Unknown
166 posts
Joined: Mar, 2005
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Posted - 2017/04/24 : 21:40:27
Let's just buy one between 10 people then. It's digitals anyway :D
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 02:03:29
In the end, it's a new Ham album. How it happened, and who gets it, is less relevant than the fact that seemingly full time scene members are doing infinitely less and getting the bookings that might have kept him.
It's like criticising the make up on a domestic abuse victim.
CDJay
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Edited by - CDJay on 2017/04/25 09:51:03 |
Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 10:37:37
Could someone correct me if I've completely misunderstood what's going on here.
So I've not commented or kept up to date on this scenario since I first heard that it was in the works.
I had no idea that Ham was asking for ?100 from a small group of people to exclusively receive his album. That's absolutely nuts. I was over the moon that he's returned with new content, but Hardcore has no chance of progressing with this method of releasing.
The scene needs more people to access the music - even if it's for free - to grow. I drum on and on about how Hardcore should be more available on Spotify and on various Youtube channels to reach the wider markets, and here is one of the cult legends of scene who is doing exactly the opposite.
Now, he will get the pledges, and those 100 people will receive the album and Ham gets his money, but it's absolutely and entirely selfish. Now, he's entirely within his own right to release music this way, but the way I see it, he's neglecting his responsibility to further the scene and community. He's taking ?10,000 out of it and offering 10 tracks that thousands of fans won't get to hear. I'm mind-numbingly dismayed at this. It goes against my ethos entirely.
edit/trimmed
I can't blame CDJay for his more defensive posts, I think a Ham album coming through Hardcore Underground would be fantastic in the future, and if it were to happen, I'd seriously consider buying it. I'm ever a Ham fan, but he needs to rethink why he's returned to us.
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Edited by - Elipton on 2017/04/25 12:16:23 |
arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 10:52:12
Look at it like this, if he didn't make the 10 grand, he wasn't going to take time out of his presumably higher paying dnb production gig with the biggest dnb label in the world.
Why does he have a 'responsibility to further the scene' exactly? It's not like 'the scene' did a great deal to further Ham later on is it.
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soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 11:24:29
edited/trimmed
Anyone who enters and remains active in entertainment has a commitment to the community they intend to earn money from. As I say, Ham is within his rights to act this way, but he's taking from the scene, and not giving back. There are thousands of Hardcore fans that'd love his music that will miss out. Ham has no obligation to other competing Hardcore artists to sustain the scene, but by taking and not giving, he's hurting the scene for everyone else - and everyone else are the many fans that far outnumber Ham's competitors.
I'll repeat that I have no issue with Ham, but if music production is his career, there're other ways to pay the bills than to charge ?10 a track. If, as a career producer, he's cooking up 4 or 5 tracks a month, he'd be having releases coming out every which way. Instead, we're seeing one RAM release every year. I'm trying to understand the motive behind this strategy, but there's not a lot of justification for it.
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Edited by - Elipton on 2017/04/25 12:16:49 |
Cyrax
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
623 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 11:45:13
If people are willing to pay it then I don't see the big deal, people will get to hear these tracks played out because Ham CC'd in all the DJ's involved on the e-mail and there were some well known names in there.
This is a good read whether you agree or disagree.
http://www.kniteforcerevolution.com/posts/4-reasons-you-are-wrong-about-hams-album-idea/
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 11:59:32
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrax:
If people are willing to pay it then I don't see the big deal, people will get to hear these tracks played out because Ham CC'd in all the DJ's involved on the e-mail and there were some well known names in there.
This is a good read whether you agree or disagree.
http://www.kniteforcerevolution.com/posts/4-reasons-you-are-wrong-about-hams-album-idea/
I gave that a skim through, and I'm making my posts with all of that in mind. I understand that to some people, that music is still value for money. Nothing in that post really changes my mind. As I say, I have no issue with the guy. He's not forcing anyone to pay for it. They do so on their own intuition. That's fine.
I won't repeat my point. It wouldn't be fair. I've aired my concern at limited run albums from Rebuild or HU before. Ham is no different. This isn't about the people who do receive the album, it's about the opportunity cost to Hardcore on a whole.
If Ham's come to us to survive the RAM shit-storm that I predict, he's more than welcome. A label or revival of Blatant Beats would not be sneered upon by any measure. More than enough people would dig that if he's looking for a long term plan in Hardcore. So I say this, and I hope he reads it, we'll look after you, bro. We're all fans here.
edit: Further digging, looks like RAM were bought out by BMG to keep them floated in February. Their liabilities should have wound up the company. This usually doesn't have a good impact on the future releases, and I wonder if it resulted in Hamilton being axed from the roster. In turn, I've trimmed my posts where I've been a bit loose with my comments. I'll repeat again, I have no bone to pick
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Edited by - Elipton on 2017/04/25 12:18:09 |
ViolonC
Average Member
Germany
243 posts
Joined: Sep, 2014
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 13:07:06
To poor some oil in the fire: the ppl that are pushing their music out there to new audiences are the beloved hh.com forum nemesis Gammer and Styles.
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arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 13:12:27
I don't see how this is 'taking from the scene'? You think it's going to be like, cause I paid ?100 for this album I'm going to stop buying the HU albums? This simply wouldn't have even started if he didn't reach the goal so then the music wouldn't exist at all, it *only* exists because people wanted it
As for 'thousands of people' not being able to hear the tracks, they'll be included in mixes by everyone who bought it, plus quite a few more that clubbed in together so I don't really think that's a valid gripe.
I reckon you're misjudging the RAM situation as well to be honest but I suppose that'll have to remain to be seen
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soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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