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arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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 Posted - 2017/04/25 : 13:21:36
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
To poor some oil in the fire: the ppl that are pushing their music out there to new audiences are the beloved hh.com forum nemesis Gammer and Styles.
They're not really though are they? They're producing wank trying to cater to a very fickle bunch of people that attend EDM events in the US. Those people aren't there to see hardcore, they're there to see whatever the hot fiyah is at the time and it's certainly not hardcore. Sure, they might pick up a few fans like that and from some idiot 'ironically' playing one of their tunes after a trap set but it's hardly pushing the sound forward in any meaningful way.
Ham has been upfront with it - basically 'Look, I'm up for making some hardcore but it needs to pay ?10k to make it worthwhile' and no doubt it is going to be worthwhile for the people that bought it, and it'll be proper hardcore. Not shite.
__________________________________
soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 13:31:33
quote:
Originally posted by arpz:
I don't see how this is 'taking from the scene'? You think it's going to be like, cause I paid ?100 for this album I'm going to stop buying the HU albums? This simply wouldn't have even started if he didn't reach the goal so then the music wouldn't exist at all, it *only* exists because people wanted it
As for 'thousands of people' not being able to hear the tracks, they'll be included in mixes by everyone who bought it, plus quite a few more that clubbed in together so I don't really think that's a valid gripe.
I reckon you're misjudging the RAM situation as well to be honest but I suppose that'll have to remain to be seen
Well my response would generally explain this in a macro economic sense. You see, if consumers part with an average sum amount of cash annually, taking ?10,000 from that sum, will, even if marginally, reduce the rest of the capital flowing between consumers and labels. But that's all pretty irrelevant.
I'm more worried about the opportunity cost. You have 10 tracks are being released to a very select group of people. You've mentioned that there's only a supply because there's a demand. There's far more demand in the scene than there is supply from ANY artist, let alone Ham and the 100 disciples. If you suggest there's demand enough to raise the price ten-fold, then I will refer you to Martin Shkreli. They won't be published on spotify or on youtube, and therefore their outreach will be minimal. If it doesn't serve to further Hardcore, their existence doesn't matter to the likes of me who is a general consumer. You have a Hardcore producer with an enormous following to start with, but instead of utilising that, he's releasing to 100 people privately. If I have 10 of my tracks and release them privately to 100 people, how will that help Hardcore?
You mention mixes, which helps, but I rather doubt that the tracks will be played anywhere apart from events. Even when you consider event-going Hardcore fans, that's fractional. It would be hypocritical to release to a closed pool of people and then have the tracks made available in a digitally released mix.
As for the RAM Records situation, I'm quite possibly wrong, but there's a trend of growing liability and loss since 2014, and it's fact that the company has become part of BMG. The facts paint a grim picture, and my mate who's an accountant confirmed my worry. That's a very major shake-up, and it will inevitably pose some decision-making for Ham.
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Edited by - Elipton on 2017/04/25 13:34:02 |
Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 13:38:51
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
To poor some oil in the fire: the ppl that are pushing their music out there to new audiences are the beloved hh.com forum nemesis Gammer and Styles.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for that. I've cited and lauded them a few times on the forums as doing what is necessary to bring new fans to the industry.
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arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 14:32:38
I think you're contradicting yourself (maybe not)?
You're making a couple of statements -
1) There's only so much money available to be spent on hardcore so Ham is taking money away from other people
2) There's more demand than there is supply
Surely with all this demand, there's money to go around for everyone to buy what they want.
And I agree, there's nowhere near enough good hardcore to spend all my money on so I will continue to buy everything I want even after outlaying for the Ham album.
Re: mixes - everyones going to be playing them in mixes and putting them up on soundcloud and all that stuff, I'd say you're more likely to see that than you are event plays because there's only a limited number of (big name) DJ's that would even bother playing something from Ham/NG. You'll be hearing the tracks if you want to hear them, just like everyone else that wants to hear it so I really can't see that the 'you're keeping people back from enjoying it' argument stands up
__________________________________
soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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Edited by - arpz on 2017/04/25 14:33:14 |
Cyrax
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
623 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 14:46:50
I would have gone the full tonne, but fortunately some very trusting members of HHC.com went in on this with me.
It works out at ?2.50 per WAV + potential stems for all the tracks to remix.
It's a cracking deal, I'm hoping there's some decent vocal stuff on there.
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 15:07:08
quote:
Originally posted by arpz:
I think you're contradicting yourself (maybe not)?
You're making a couple of statements -
1) There's only so much money available to be spent on hardcore so Ham is taking money away from other people
2) There's more demand than there is supply
Surely with all this demand, there's money to go around for everyone to buy what they want.
And I agree, there's nowhere near enough good hardcore to spend all my money on so I will continue to buy everything I want even after outlaying for the Ham album.
I didn't want to reply again, but I can't help myself 
Yes, you're right, on the face of it, it's a contradiction, but consider the available supply from the top artists in Hardcore, those that the whole scene would be aware of. Your Gammers, Darren Styles, Hixxys and Ham would enter that category. Digital Labels with smaller market shares disregarded, there's far more demand than supply. However, in Hardcore as a whole, if someone's spending ?100 for 10 tracks, they're less inclined on a macro scale to do a shop on Beatport for yet more material.
But like I say, I've made my points and I don't really want to go in circles on it (as topics I comment in tend to do xD)
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Edited by - Elipton on 2017/04/25 15:08:12 |
arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 15:14:03
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by arpz:
I think you're contradicting yourself (maybe not)?
You're making a couple of statements -
1) There's only so much money available to be spent on hardcore so Ham is taking money away from other people
2) There's more demand than there is supply
Surely with all this demand, there's money to go around for everyone to buy what they want.
And I agree, there's nowhere near enough good hardcore to spend all my money on so I will continue to buy everything I want even after outlaying for the Ham album.
I didn't want to reply again, but I can't help myself
Yes, you're right, on the face of it, it's a contradiction, but consider the available supply from the top artists in Hardcore, those that the whole scene would be aware of. Your Gammers, Darren Styles, Hixxys and Ham would enter that category. Digital Labels with smaller market shares disregarded, there's far more demand than supply. However, in Hardcore as a whole, if someone's spending ?100 for 10 tracks, they're less inclined on a macro scale to do a shop on Beatport for yet more material.
I'll reply just to say that I disagree but might as well leave it at that because it's going to become cyclical
edit: pretty sure your edit must've been basically the same thing as mine
__________________________________
soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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Edited by - arpz on 2017/04/25 15:15:05 |
trippnface
Advanced Member
United States
1,654 posts
Joined: Jan, 2010
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 15:41:02
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
To poor some oil in the fire: the ppl that are pushing their music out there to new audiences are the beloved hh.com forum nemesis Gammer and Styles.
DJ SNAKE FOR LIFE!
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(A)☮(E)
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djDMS
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 17:06:50
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by ViolonC:
To poor some oil in the fire: the ppl that are pushing their music out there to new audiences are the beloved hh.com forum nemesis Gammer and Styles.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for that. I've cited and lauded them a few times on the forums as doing what is necessary to bring new fans to the industry.
No, they're doing what is necessary to bring new fans to THEM and nobody else.
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Taking my time to perfect the beat
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Sulphurik
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
954 posts
Joined: Jan, 2009
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 17:21:12
An old Ham track I thought of again recently Is Anybody Out There? It's a track would be good to hear an update/ new remix of. It's a track that you would have thought another remix would have been done already eg. a Brisk & Ham or Brisk & Vagabond remix from 10 years ago.
The Slipmatt & Ham remix from 96 was probably best version.
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The drunken scotsman
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,486 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 19:37:56
Not sure why Ham would give two ****s about the hardcore scene. He was one of the the scenes finest producers for many a year with relatively little return in comparison with other, less talented, producers/Dj's.
The digital revolution was probably the straw that broke the camels back and in taking his talents to D&B he probably earns more now than he ever did in hardcore.
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Captain Triceps
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,184 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 19:55:13
quote:
Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Not sure why Ham would give two ****s about the hardcore scene. He was one of the the scenes finest producers for many a year with relatively little return in comparison with other, less talented, producers/Dj's.
The digital revolution was probably the straw that broke the camels back and in taking his talents to D&B he probably earns more now than he ever did in hardcore.
He will definitely earn more in D&B than he did in hardcore. It doesn't mean he doesn't still have to love the music, it's a shame that he didn't get the DJ bookings but it's not like the fans of his music turned their backs on him.
I hope he has been inspired to make more hardcore to sell at more realistic prices so we can all enjoy it equally. A man of his talents should be able to knock up tunes like nobodies business in his spare time anyway.
__________________________________
Some of my remixes, original tracks and mixes here:
https://soundcloud.com/bradders-tracks-and-remix
https://soundcloud.com/bradders1982
https://soundcloud.com/paulbradley1982
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The drunken scotsman
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,486 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 21:16:34
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Triceps:
quote:
Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
Not sure why Ham would give two ****s about the hardcore scene. He was one of the the scenes finest producers for many a year with relatively little return in comparison with other, less talented, producers/Dj's.
The digital revolution was probably the straw that broke the camels back and in taking his talents to D&B he probably earns more now than he ever did in hardcore.
He will definitely earn more in D&B than he did in hardcore. It doesn't mean he doesn't still have to love the music, it's a shame that he didn't get the DJ bookings but it's not like the fans of his music turned their backs on him.
I hope he has been inspired to make more hardcore to sell at more realistic prices so we can all enjoy it equally. A man of his talents should be able to knock up tunes like nobodies business in his spare time anyway.
I think love for the music and love for 'the scene' are two completely different things. I've no doubt that he loves the music, that is shown by his previous commitment to hardcore despite the lack of bookings and by the fact that he's made a return of sorts to (hopefully!) produce 10 great tracks.
On the assumption that these tracks are as good as we all hope and expect, then I'd also like him to make more. I'd be very surprised if he has any interest in helping to grow the hardcore scene though.
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CDJay
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2017/04/25 : 22:19:25
I'll go off on a tangent. Exposure isn't always a good thing.
Seen the Facebook live stuff last week?
Audience is one tempting aspiration, helpful engagement is another. It takes a supreme ego to assume a million people watching you burn down an orphanage is always a good thing.
Scenes are not based on, and sustainable from, random peacocking.
CDJay
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Http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk
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Edited by - CDJay on 2017/04/25 22:23:35 |
Impulse_Response
Advanced Member
United States
724 posts
Joined: Jun, 2013
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Posted - 2017/04/26 : 05:12:48
I'm upset about how sudden it was. It seemed like he basically said "Give me 100 pounds right now or you can't have it." I don't mind that he sold the album through informal means, but it does a disservice to fans who can't drop money like that on demand for music. That's why I'm always about a year behind on HU albums. Maybe make it 100 pounds but not limit the number of sales?
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Producers and record labels, please stop "loudness war" mastering everything. It sounds terrible.
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