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Thread |
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Cyrax
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
623 posts
Joined: May, 2012
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 Posted - 2017/04/27 : 15:19:58
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by skarr:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
quote:
Originally posted by skarr:
He earns 1000s and 1000s of pounds from playing drum n bass all over the world every week, and now he's just pocketed 10 grand off you stupid mother****ers for banging out such ground-breaking originals like 'yeah yeah yeah ' and 'tonight '.
Spectacularly incorrect. Hamilton won't appear at a RAM event until August. The last event promoted on the Hamilton page was from the start of February.
Check your facts and stop doing double-posts.
Don't get me started about the ignorance of slating an album for it's track names..
So he doesn't earn 1000s and 1000s of pounds from playing drum n bass all over the world then ? Maybe he's just taking a break ? He's signed to the biggest drum n bass label of all time, he's made SILLY cash , so now he's sitting back and putting another 10 grand in his pocket for doing absolutely **** all, other than ripping people off and posting the odd video and picture every now and again.
I can say with confidence that your estimation of what a D&B producer earns is highly inflated. Moreso, Ham has had one EP a year on the label with occasional compilation features. RAM might be a large label, but it's nothing like what it used to be, and D&B artists don't make a big packet out of producing the music. As with Hardcore artists, it's a labour of love that if done correctly can pay the bills.
Does Ham have two 17-plate Maserati's on his drive? Lol. No. Probably more like a Mark 3 Mondeo and Pug 307 CC.
Now please, with all your evidential first-hand experience, please tell me how wrong I am.
Elipton, stop biting you're making it too easy.
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2017/04/27 : 15:30:46
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrax:
Elipton, stop biting you're making it too easy.
Nothing better to do, sadly
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Owen P
Average Member
United Kingdom
154 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
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Posted - 2017/04/27 : 19:39:15
If you're complaining about the sales model for the DJ Ham album, you need to grow the heck up! Here's why:
There's an important historical context that seems to be absent from this whole thread.
Reality check: Next Generation weathered the storm when the hardcore boat got shaky in the late 1990s. Those guys stuck to their guns and were instrumental to the scene's revival in the early 2000s. The whole hardcore scene owes Brisk & Ham a big fat dollop of gratitude and respect for that. Whatever way you look at it, Ham's recent "hiatus" is a sign that "the scene", again, wasn't treating him well.
Judging by the content of his hardcore back catalogue, it'd be fair to assume that he'd had more than a passing interest in jungle/DnB music. Unfortunately, the inbred mentality of many people in both jungle/hardcore camps - which were once one big happy scene, let's not forget - always made it difficult for any artist to straddle the line and do both. DJ Krome & Mr Time tried it and were ridiculed by their peers. Shy FX once opened a set with a house record and sustained a violent reaction from the crowd (literally had stuff thrown at him).
My point is: what Ham has done by moving into DnB was an act of bravery and artistic integrity. He didn't immediately stop making hardcore when he signed to Ram, either - that's something worth noting. And if you think he's rolling in cash after being signed exclusively to a label that puts out a couple of singles from each artist per year then I suggest you're not very good at maths.
True talk: THERE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE A DJ HAM ALBUM at this point!
The "scene" that some people think he's somehow indebted to just isn't healthy enough that he could put out an album and be confident he's gonna be fairly compensated for it. Is that Ham's fault? No! Can he reverse that situation by putting out an album on general release? Of course not! The way things were looking, we were *all* on course to get *0* more DJ Ham tracks, *ever*.
It amazes me that people can complain about not being able to afford the album, while simultaneously implying that he should be willing to do it for no (or very little compensation). That's called hypocrisy. Or maybe even narcissism. He's a human being for goodness sake, he owes you absolutely nothing. He's paid his dues many times over in the scene. FFS! :D
Ham obviously realllllly wanted to make a hardcore album, 100+ people obviously realllllly wanted to own it. I distinctly got the vibe that he wasn't sure the whole thing would work, but think about it. He's basically sat there and thought "Well... if I knew I could get ?10k for it, that would probably just about make it worthwhile". Anyone who doesn't see that ?10k is a pathetic amount of money to receive for producing a 10-track hardcore album just doesn't know what it takes to do so. That's why you're not DJ Ham, and he is. Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Seriously. Writing, recording, producing, mixing, mastering < and that's just the musical side, not even taking into account the admin, organisation, delivery and support. And it's tough to put a value on all the unpaid hours of learning and honing your craft to be able to put out a product to the level of the average DJ Ham release. Get real.
The thing is, he's earned sufficient trust with a big enough group of people to pull this off. This is for the HARDCORE hardcore fans, those for whom the album's worth is at least ?100. Personally I think he's mad for not charging ?250, or more. If I were his manager, this would be a ?100 4-track EP at best. Without this investment from loyal DJ Ham fans, the album simply wouldn't exist. That speaks volumes about how well he's served the scene to date, by the way.
I realise not everybody has a spare ?100 lying around, but that's okay - you're going to receive exactly what you would have received had he not embarked on this project: nothing.
You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go. Let's have some perspective. How much was the device you're using to get online? How much do you spend on a night out? You probably spend more than ?100 a month on transport. And he's allowing group buys - can't say fairer than that!!!
I sympathise if funds are genuinely tight for you - most of us have been there at one time or another. But it's not DJ Ham's responsibility to fix your financial situation, or to use an album selling model that's makes it financially nonviable for him to even create it in the first place. If you can't afford to financially support the makers of things, then you simply can't have those things. That doesn't feel nice, but it's true for all of us.... including DJ Ham!
BUT WAIT
If the album's not up to scratch, or doesn't get delivered, then we have a whole other conversation to have.
P.S. And if you're complaining about the track titles, I'm sure he won't mind if you rename the files and call the tracks whatever you like in the privacy of your own home. You flipping mug.
__________________________________
http://www.hattrixx.co.uk/
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skarr
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
527 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
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Posted - 2017/04/27 : 20:03:14
quote:
Originally posted by Owen P:
If you're complaining about the sales model for the DJ Ham album, you need to grow the heck up! Here's why:
There's an important historical context that seems to be absent from this whole thread.
Reality check: Next Generation weathered the storm when the hardcore boat got shaky in the late 1990s. Those guys stuck to their guns and were instrumental to the scene's revival in the early 2000s. The whole hardcore scene owes Brisk & Ham a big fat dollop of gratitude and respect for that. Whatever way you look at it, Ham's recent "hiatus" is a sign that "the scene", again, wasn't treating him well.
Judging by the content of his hardcore back catalogue, it'd be fair to assume that he'd had more than a passing interest in jungle/DnB music. Unfortunately, the inbred mentality of many people in both jungle/hardcore camps - which were once one big happy scene, let's not forget - always made it difficult for any artist to straddle the line and do both. DJ Krome & Mr Time tried it and were ridiculed by their peers. Shy FX once opened a set with a house record and sustained a violent reaction from the crowd (literally had stuff thrown at him).
My point is: what Ham has done by moving into DnB was an act of bravery and artistic integrity. He didn't immediately stop making hardcore when he signed to Ram, either - that's something worth noting. And if you think he's rolling in cash after being signed exclusively to a label that puts out a couple of singles from each artist per year then I suggest you're not very good at maths.
True talk: THERE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE A DJ HAM ALBUM at this point!
The "scene" that some people think he's somehow indebted to just isn't healthy enough that he could put out an album and be confident he's gonna be fairly compensated for it. Is that Ham's fault? No! Can he reverse that situation by putting out an album on general release? Of course not! The way things were looking, we were *all* on course to get *0* more DJ Ham tracks, *ever*.
It amazes me that people can complain about not being able to afford the album, while simultaneously implying that he should be willing to do it for no (or very little compensation). That's called hypocrisy. Or maybe even narcissism. He's a human being for goodness sake, he owes you absolutely nothing. He's paid his dues many times over in the scene. FFS! :D
Ham obviously realllllly wanted to make a hardcore album, 100+ people obviously realllllly wanted to own it. I distinctly got the vibe that he wasn't sure the whole thing would work, but think about it. He's basically sat there and thought "Well... if I knew I could get ?10k for it, that would probably just about make it worthwhile". Anyone who doesn't see that ?10k is a pathetic amount of money to receive for producing a 10-track hardcore album just doesn't know what it takes to do so. That's why you're not DJ Ham, and he is. Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Seriously. Writing, recording, producing, mixing, mastering < and that's just the musical side, not even taking into account the admin, organisation, delivery and support. And it's tough to put a value on all the unpaid hours of learning and honing your craft to be able to put out a product to the level of the average DJ Ham release. Get real.
The thing is, he's earned sufficient trust with a big enough group of people to pull this off. This is for the HARDCORE hardcore fans, those for whom the album's worth is at least ?100. Personally I think he's mad for not charging ?250, or more. If I were his manager, this would be a ?100 4-track EP at best. Without this investment from loyal DJ Ham fans, the album simply wouldn't exist. That speaks volumes about how well he's served the scene to date, by the way.
I realise not everybody has a spare ?100 lying around, but that's okay - you're going to receive exactly what you would have received had he not embarked on this project: nothing.
You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go. Let's have some perspective. How much was the device you're using to get online? How much do you spend on a night out? You probably spend more than ?100 a month on transport. And he's allowing group buys - can't say fairer than that!!!
I sympathise if funds are genuinely tight for you - most of us have been there at one time or another. But it's not DJ Ham's responsibility to fix your financial situation, or to use an album selling model that's makes it financially nonviable for him to even create it in the first place. If you can't afford to financially support the makers of things, then you simply can't have those things. That doesn't feel nice, but it's true for all of us.... including DJ Ham!
BUT WAIT
If the album's not up to scratch, or doesn't get delivered, then we have a whole other conversation to have.
P.S. And if you're complaining about the track titles, I'm sure he won't mind if you rename the files and call the tracks whatever you like in the privacy of your own home. You flipping mug.
Mate, you are so ****in right in so many ways, I can't even think about arguing with you, let's just wait for the album n then have a discussion......
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skarr
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
527 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
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Posted - 2017/04/27 : 20:08:46
Cyrax, I have heard your music, I've got one word for it, 'BANGING ' , elipton I have only the same word to say about your music. You paying your bills off it though ?
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arpz
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,267 posts
Joined: Aug, 2012
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Posted - 2017/04/27 : 22:20:01
Great post dude :)
__________________________________
soundcloud - http://soundcloud.com/arpz // site -
http://arps.io
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2017/04/28 : 04:50:42
quote:
Originally posted by skarr:
Cyrax, I have heard your music, I've got one word for it, 'BANGING ' , elipton I have only the same word to say about your music. You paying your bills off it though ?
Christ no 
But thank you
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,230 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2017/04/28 : 05:01:18
quote:
Originally posted by skarr:
quote:
Originally posted by Owen P:
TL;DR
Mate, you are so ****in right in so many ways, I can't even think about arguing with you, let's just wait for the album n then have a discussion......
Why are you agreeing? you're the biggest twat on the thread.
Olly P: I dont anyone here where complaing about that Ham shouldn't get compensation for it. OFCOURSE he should. What I personally argue the most is that he should have lowerered the starting price per patron so that maybe even more would shell in, and he would get even more.
Also, in my opionon, I know that the Scene (not us) has screwed up Ham, but with this, I feel like Ham is screwing the wrong persons (us, instead of the shitscene).
quote:
You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go.
Ofcourse he asked for it. What if there wheren't 100 person who wanted to shell those 100 out? Then he probably wouldn't have bothered with the album. Dont forget there was a time limit on the bloody thing.
__________________________________
---------------------------------------------
Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
---------------------------------------------
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Edited by - Samination on 2017/04/28 05:05:20 |
Owen P
Average Member
United Kingdom
154 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
|
Posted - 2017/04/28 : 07:34:29
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
Why are you agreeing?
He's agreeing because I made a well-reasoned argument. That's how discussions move forwards. You should try it sometime! ;)
quote:
you're the biggest twat on the thread.
^And here's an example of how discussions devolve into mindless nonsense.
quote:
Olly P:
Nobody called that here.
quote:
I dont anyone here where complaing about that Ham shouldn't get compensation for it.
Nobody said that here.
quote:
What I personally argue the most is that he should have lowerered the starting price per patron so that maybe even more would shell in, and he would get even more.
More patrons required = less exclusivity and bigger risk. The exclusivity is what makes the model work. Out of interest, what do you feel would have been a fair price to bring DJ Ham out of hardcore retirement to produce 10 exclusive tracks? Serious question, please answer honestly. I can't help but feel you're seriously undervaluing him and his art/work/time.
quote:
Also, in my opionon, I know that the Scene (not us) has screwed up Ham, but with this, I feel like Ham is screwing the wrong persons (us, instead of the shitscene).
If he doesn't deliver the album, or if the album is a load of old tosh, then he's screwing people. Otherwise he's rewarding the die hard fans for their loyalty and commitment. A fair transaction if ever I did see one.
quote:
You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go.
Ofcourse he asked for it.
Can you not read? I didn't say "he didn't ask for any money", I said "he didn't ask for it ALL IN ONE GO". In other words, if you feel like being asked for ?100 on the spot is a bit of a stretch, at least you've had many, many months to get the money together.
quote:
What if there wheren't 100 person who wanted to shell those 100 out? Then he probably wouldn't have bothered with the album.
Wouldn't have bothered??? If there weren't 100 sets of ?100-paying people who wanted the album, then it would've been infeasible for him to even think about doing an album. Lowering the price, diminishing the exclusivity, and raising the risk to him would have made no sense. I hear there were many groups of 3 or 4 people buying in. Why don't you join them and get it for 1/4 or 1/5 of the price? Ham has been more than fair in permitting these kinds of arrangements.
quote:
Dont forget there was a time limit on the bloody thing.
Well yes, of course. How else would you expect him to organise it? No time limit? Are you really that self-centred that you can't see that DJ Ham and his most die hard of fans deserve this?
IF you want free/cheap music, go to SoundCloud, YouTube, or just Google. There's a never ending supply of free/cheap music, and there are people who would desperately like to pick up your plays. But if you want a piece of hardcore history from DJ flipping Ham, then you have to play by the rules that make it viable for him to produce/deliver it.
Make no mistake: IF the album is total garbage, I'll be the first to drag him across the coals. However, I have a very, very strong feeling it won't be (and I'm not alone there!).
__________________________________
http://www.hattrixx.co.uk/
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Edited by - Owen P on 2017/04/28 09:19:54 |
Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,230 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
|
Posted - 2017/04/28 : 09:24:18
quote:
Originally posted by Owen P:
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
Why are you agreeing?
He's agreeing because I made a well-reasoned argument. That's how discussions move forwards. You should try it sometime! ;)
quote:
you're the biggest twat on the thread.
^And here's an example of how discussions devolve into mindless nonsense.
If you had read the post he/she has made for the past few months, you would call it a twat too.
quote:
quote:
Olly P:
Nobody called that here.
Sorry, honest misstake since I didn't even know who you are (or, well, you havent made enough posts here during my active to make me remember you). But there is a Olly P, but he's not in this current conversation.
quote:
quote:
I dont anyone here where complaing about that Ham shouldn't get compensation for it.
Nobody said that here.
Well this discussion is on here, and you just wrote "people".
quote:
quote:
What I personally argue the most is that he should have lowerered the starting price per patron so that maybe even more would shell in, and he would get even more.
More patrons required = less exclusivity and bigger risk. The exclusivity is what makes the model work. Out of interest, what do you feel would have been a fair price to bring DJ Ham out of hardcore retirement to produce 10 exclusive tracks? Serious question, please answer honestly. I can't help but feel you're seriously undervaluing him and his art/work/time.
You expecting me to say a tenner aren't you? No. But around half of what he asked for per person, aslong as he gets his goal of 10k.
And to be honest, I am not a particular fan of DJ Ham. I did enjoy his colabs with Brisk and a few of his solo works. That is.
Also, just to be extra snarky, most kind of work is devalued. Why should an artists work be more valued than someone cleaning the toilets?
quote:
quote:
Also, in my opionon, I know that the Scene (not us) has screwed up Ham, but with this, I feel like Ham is screwing the wrong persons (us, instead of the shitscene).
If he doesn't deliver the album, or if the album is a load of old tosh, then he's screwing people. Otherwise he's rewarding the die hard fans for their loyalty and commitment. A fair transaction if ever I did see one.
I guess we'll see as soon as the tracks drop.
quote:
quote:
You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go.
Ofcourse he asked for it.
Can you not read? I didn't say "he didn't ask for any money", I said "he didn't ask for it ALL IN ONE GO". In other words, if you feel like being asked for ?100 on the spot is a bit of a stretch, at least you've had many, many months to get the money together.
I know what he wrote. https://www.happyhardcore.com/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=83967
But I will take back the bit about it being on a time limit.
quote:
quote:
What if there wheren't 100 person who wanted to shell those 100 out? Then he probably wouldn't have bothered with the album.
Bothered? If there weren't 100 sets of ?100-paying people who wanted the album, then it would have been infeasible for him to even think about doing an album. Lowering the price, diminishing the exclusivity, and raising the risk to him would make no sense. I hear there were many groups of 3 or 4 people buying in. Why don't you join them and get it for 1/4 or 1/5 of the price? Ham has been more than fair in permitting these kinds of arrangements.
I did.
quote:
quote:
Dont forget there was a time limit on the bloody thing.
Well yes, of course. How else would you expect him to organise it? No time limit? Are you really that self-centred that you can't see that DJ Ham and his most die hard of fans deserve this?
Checking back, I dont think he mentioned anything about a time limit. Just a feasibly amount of time to pass to garner the 100 people.
quote:
Make no mistake: IF the album is total garbage, I'll be the first to drag him across the coals. I've got a very, very strong feeling it won't be (and I'm not alone there!).
You just defended skarr from my attack, the person who complained about the tracknaming DJ Ham made :P
__________________________________
---------------------------------------------
Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
---------------------------------------------
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Edited by - Samination on 2017/04/28 09:25:12 |
skarr
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
527 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
|
Posted - 2017/04/28 : 09:59:48
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
quote:
Originally posted by Owen P:
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
Why are you agreeing?
He's agreeing because I made a well-reasoned argument. That's how discussions move forwards. You should try it sometime! ;)
quote:
you're the biggest twat on the thread.
^And here's an example of how discussions devolve into mindless nonsense.
If you had read the post he/she has made for the past few months, you would call it a twat too.
quote:
quote:
Olly P:
Nobody called that here.
Sorry, honest misstake since I didn't even know who you are (or, well, you havent made enough posts here during my active to make me remember you). But there is a Olly P, but he's not in this current conversation.
quote:
quote:
I dont anyone here where complaing about that Ham shouldn't get compensation for it.
Nobody said that here.
Well this discussion is on here, and you just wrote "people".
quote:
quote:
What I personally argue the most is that he should have lowerered the starting price per patron so that maybe even more would shell in, and he would get even more.
More patrons required = less exclusivity and bigger risk. The exclusivity is what makes the model work. Out of interest, what do you feel would have been a fair price to bring DJ Ham out of hardcore retirement to produce 10 exclusive tracks? Serious question, please answer honestly. I can't help but feel you're seriously undervaluing him and his art/work/time.
You expecting me to say a tenner aren't you? No. But around half of what he asked for per person, aslong as he gets his goal of 10k.
And to be honest, I am not a particular fan of DJ Ham. I did enjoy his colabs with Brisk and a few of his solo works. That is.
Also, just to be extra snarky, most kind of work is devalued. Why should an artists work be more valued than someone cleaning the toilets?
quote:
quote:
Also, in my opionon, I know that the Scene (not us) has screwed up Ham, but with this, I feel like Ham is screwing the wrong persons (us, instead of the shitscene).
If he doesn't deliver the album, or if the album is a load of old tosh, then he's screwing people. Otherwise he's rewarding the die hard fans for their loyalty and commitment. A fair transaction if ever I did see one.
I guess we'll see as soon as the tracks drop.
quote:
quote:
You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go.
Ofcourse he asked for it.
Can you not read? I didn't say "he didn't ask for any money", I said "he didn't ask for it ALL IN ONE GO". In other words, if you feel like being asked for ?100 on the spot is a bit of a stretch, at least you've had many, many months to get the money together.
I know what he wrote. https://www.happyhardcore.com/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=83967
But I will take back the bit about it being on a time limit.
quote:
quote:
What if there wheren't 100 person who wanted to shell those 100 out? Then he probably wouldn't have bothered with the album.
Bothered? If there weren't 100 sets of ?100-paying people who wanted the album, then it would have been infeasible for him to even think about doing an album. Lowering the price, diminishing the exclusivity, and raising the risk to him would make no sense. I hear there were many groups of 3 or 4 people buying in. Why don't you join them and get it for 1/4 or 1/5 of the price? Ham has been more than fair in permitting these kinds of arrangements.
I did.
quote:
quote:
Dont forget there was a time limit on the bloody thing.
Well yes, of course. How else would you expect him to organise it? No time limit? Are you really that self-centred that you can't see that DJ Ham and his most die hard of fans deserve this?
Checking back, I dont think he mentioned anything about a time limit. Just a feasibly amount of time to pass to garner the 100 people.
quote:
Make no mistake: IF the album is total garbage, I'll be the first to drag him across the coals. I've got a very, very strong feeling it won't be (and I'm not alone there!).
You just defended skarr from my attack, the person who complained about the tracknaming DJ Ham made :P
Sorry but everyone has been judging the hh2 album on it's tracklist, which I think looks incredible to be honest, I haven't judged the album, I just said I hope he has put more thought and effort into making the tracks than he has naming them.
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skarr
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
527 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
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Posted - 2017/04/28 : 10:03:56
quote:
Originally posted by skarr:
quote:
Originally posted by Owen P:
If you're complaining about the sales model for the DJ Ham album, you need to grow the heck up! Here's why:
There's an important historical context that seems to be absent from this whole thread.
Reality check: Next Generation weathered the storm when the hardcore boat got shaky in the late 1990s. Those guys stuck to their guns and were instrumental to the scene's revival in the early 2000s. The whole hardcore scene owes Brisk & Ham a big fat dollop of gratitude and respect for that. Whatever way you look at it, Ham's recent "hiatus" is a sign that "the scene", again, wasn't treating him well.
Judging by the content of his hardcore back catalogue, it'd be fair to assume that he'd had more than a passing interest in jungle/DnB music. Unfortunately, the inbred mentality of many people in both jungle/hardcore camps - which were once one big happy scene, let's not forget - always made it difficult for any artist to straddle the line and do both. DJ Krome & Mr Time tried it and were ridiculed by their peers. Shy FX once opened a set with a house record and sustained a violent reaction from the crowd (literally had stuff thrown at him).
My point is: what Ham has done by moving into DnB was an act of bravery and artistic integrity. He didn't immediately stop making hardcore when he signed to Ram, either - that's something worth noting. And if you think he's rolling in cash after being signed exclusively to a label that puts out a couple of singles from each artist per year then I suggest you're not very good at maths.
True talk: THERE SHOULDN'T EVEN BE A DJ HAM ALBUM at this point!
The "scene" that some people think he's somehow indebted to just isn't healthy enough that he could put out an album and be confident he's gonna be fairly compensated for it. Is that Ham's fault? No! Can he reverse that situation by putting out an album on general release? Of course not! The way things were looking, we were *all* on course to get *0* more DJ Ham tracks, *ever*.
It amazes me that people can complain about not being able to afford the album, while simultaneously implying that he should be willing to do it for no (or very little compensation). That's called hypocrisy. Or maybe even narcissism. He's a human being for goodness sake, he owes you absolutely nothing. He's paid his dues many times over in the scene. FFS! :D
Ham obviously realllllly wanted to make a hardcore album, 100+ people obviously realllllly wanted to own it. I distinctly got the vibe that he wasn't sure the whole thing would work, but think about it. He's basically sat there and thought "Well... if I knew I could get ?10k for it, that would probably just about make it worthwhile". Anyone who doesn't see that ?10k is a pathetic amount of money to receive for producing a 10-track hardcore album just doesn't know what it takes to do so. That's why you're not DJ Ham, and he is. Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Seriously. Writing, recording, producing, mixing, mastering < and that's just the musical side, not even taking into account the admin, organisation, delivery and support. And it's tough to put a value on all the unpaid hours of learning and honing your craft to be able to put out a product to the level of the average DJ Ham release. Get real.
The thing is, he's earned sufficient trust with a big enough group of people to pull this off. This is for the HARDCORE hardcore fans, those for whom the album's worth is at least ?100. Personally I think he's mad for not charging ?250, or more. If I were his manager, this would be a ?100 4-track EP at best. Without this investment from loyal DJ Ham fans, the album simply wouldn't exist. That speaks volumes about how well he's served the scene to date, by the way.
I realise not everybody has a spare ?100 lying around, but that's okay - you're going to receive exactly what you would have received had he not embarked on this project: nothing.
You can get mad that he made it too "expensive", but really... he didn't ask for it all in one go. Let's have some perspective. How much was the device you're using to get online? How much do you spend on a night out? You probably spend more than ?100 a month on transport. And he's allowing group buys - can't say fairer than that!!!
I sympathise if funds are genuinely tight for you - most of us have been there at one time or another. But it's not DJ Ham's responsibility to fix your financial situation, or to use an album selling model that's makes it financially nonviable for him to even create it in the first place. If you can't afford to financially support the makers of things, then you simply can't have those things. That doesn't feel nice, but it's true for all of us.... including DJ Ham!
BUT WAIT
If the album's not up to scratch, or doesn't get delivered, then we have a whole other conversation to have.
P.S. And if you're complaining about the track titles, I'm sure he won't mind if you rename the files and call the tracks whatever you like in the privacy of your own home. You flipping mug.
Mate, you are so ****in right in so many ways, I can't even think about arguing with you, let's just wait for the album n then have a discussion......
Apart from the mug bit, yet, let's wait till the album is out before anyone gets called a mug, it could be me, or it could be the 100 people that brought it....
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skarr
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
527 posts
Joined: Dec, 2011
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Posted - 2017/04/28 : 10:15:57
!).[/quote]
You just defended skarr from my attack, the person who complained about the tracknaming DJ Ham made :P
[/quote]
Prick., you feeling bad you just been put in your place by one of the bigger boys,? So your trying to turn the attention back to me, classic bullying technique, all I talk about here is the topic at hand, which some people get so upset about it probably affects there day 2 day life so much they have to start throwing personal insults to make themselves feel better.
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Edited by - skarr on 2017/04/28 10:19:50 |
Owen P
Average Member
United Kingdom
154 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
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Posted - 2017/04/28 : 10:19:58
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
If you had read the post he/she has made for the past few months, you would call it a twat too.
No I wouldn't, you don't speak for me.
quote:
quote:
quote:
I dont anyone here where complaing about that Ham shouldn't get compensation for it.
Nobody said that here.
Well this discussion is on here, and you just wrote "people".
Irrelevant. The point is, saying Ham "shouldn't get compensation for it" represents nobody's position in this thread. I'm not sure why you brought that up, it's a straw man argument.
quote:
You expecting me to say a tenner aren't you?
No.
quote:
No. But around half of what he asked for per person, aslong as he gets his goal of 10k.
So go in with one other person and you pay half. Good grief, the maths isn't complicated.
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And to be honest, I am not a particular fan of DJ Ham.
Well that's the real issue then, isn't it? You're not a die hard DJ Ham fan. It's the die hards in particular that have supported him over the years and it's the die hards in particular who the album is aimed at rewarding. If you don't fall into that bracket then I don't know why you're getting so up in arms about it.
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Also, just to be extra snarky, most kind of work is devalued. Why should an artists work be more valued than someone cleaning the toilets?
I'll tell you why: because in a free world/society/market, you're rewarded by natural market forces for the value that you bring. There's only one DJ Ham. Note that there are plenty of toilet cleaners who are doing better financially than the vast majority of artists out there.
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I guess we'll see as soon as the tracks drop.
Indeed.
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I know what he wrote. https://www.happyhardcore.com/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=83967
But I will take back the bit about it being on a time limit.
Yes. An honest man putting the feelers out and doing his best to be reasonable and to minimise risk.
I have an intuition about you, Samination - and this is not an attack. My intuition is that you've never put a serious amount of risk into following your passion or attempting to make a living off your own back (i.e. resisting the temptation of a regular month-to-month wage working in a job). Either that, or you've had business/artistic ventures that you ran into the ground that failed miserably. DJ Ham is an individual who's put everything on the line to have a career in music. Without people like him, there would be no scene at all. And I don't know for sure, but I would guess that there were some very, very hard times and personal sacrifices along the way. There usually is. Don't get me wrong - I appreciate clean toilets, but I think I'd rather clean my toilets by myself than live in a world with no good music. Some perspective, please.
quote:
You just defended skarr from my attack, the person who complained about the tracknaming DJ Ham made :P
I didn't defend anyone at all. Skarr got the brunt of my original statement, but took it like an adult.
__________________________________
http://www.hattrixx.co.uk/
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2017/04/28 : 11:16:23
All this drama, and I've not even seen the album artwork yet...
And Olly P is a nice kid. Gotta feel sorry for him since the trend of Olly's in Hardcore tends to be that of knob-heads
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Edited by - Elipton on 2017/04/28 11:18:10 |
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