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NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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 Posted - 2011/12/24 : 13:53:25
Luna-C while you're about and active in this thread do you have any news on your Autobiography or has it been postponed?
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Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 14:15:01
quote:
Originally posted by DJ-Hutchy:
I do love an electro drop when i am on the floor or behind the decks!!! Ah shit, this thread is about cxh8 that has got forgotten about from the first page.........................PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS>>>>WE GET THAT.....BUT PROVING THE POINT YOU HAVE AN OPINION OVER AND OVER IS BORING NOW, ESPECIALLY 13 pages... OOPS THATS ANOTHER OPINION RIGHT THERE.....sorry :P
Nah it's all worth it for people to read Luna C's posts, which as usual are incredibly truthful.
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NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 14:28:09
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ-Hutchy:
I do love an electro drop when i am on the floor or behind the decks!!! Ah shit, this thread is about cxh8 that has got forgotten about from the first page.........................PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS>>>>WE GET THAT.....BUT PROVING THE POINT YOU HAVE AN OPINION OVER AND OVER IS BORING NOW, ESPECIALLY 13 pages... OOPS THATS ANOTHER OPINION RIGHT THERE.....sorry :P
Nah it's all worth it for people to read Luna C's posts, which as usual are incredibly truthful.
Agreed, I'm probably going to sound like a suck up but I remember a while back he mentioned something about everyone in hardcore having to do their own thing and stop doing it for profit if they want the scene to grow and honestly those words rang truer and truer as I progressed through the daily drama in the hardcore scene. If I gave a shit about 'making it' in the established hardcore scene I would probably be very quiet as I know voicing your opinion can affect the opportunities given to you. Thankfully I have my own road I want to take with my own style of music so it's nice to be able to speak my mind without worrying about the consequences, I'm fine with burning bridges that are behind me.
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Luna-C
Average Member
United Kingdom
222 posts
Joined: Dec, 2004
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 14:41:42
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
Luna-C while you're about and active in this thread do you have any news on your Autobiography or has it been postponed?
It is all done. I was hoping it would be ready for Christmas, but I underestimated how long it takes to press a book lol. I was expecting a few weeks (for no reason at all, having never done anything like it) but it takes about 14-16 weeks, and it was sent off to be pressed last week, so it should be available in March 2012.
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NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 18:21:40
quote:
Originally posted by Luna-C:
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
Luna-C while you're about and active in this thread do you have any news on your Autobiography or has it been postponed?
It is all done. I was hoping it would be ready for Christmas, but I underestimated how long it takes to press a book lol. I was expecting a few weeks (for no reason at all, having never done anything like it) but it takes about 14-16 weeks, and it was sent off to be pressed last week, so it should be available in March 2012.
Will it be at all good bookstores or just a handful of specific ones? I'll be very very interested to read this, I know you don't pull any punches when it comes to the truth so I'm guessing it's going to be pretty raw and to the point.
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Luna-C
Average Member
United Kingdom
222 posts
Joined: Dec, 2004
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 18:44:24
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
quote:
Originally posted by Luna-C:
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
Luna-C while you're about and active in this thread do you have any news on your Autobiography or has it been postponed?
It is all done. I was hoping it would be ready for Christmas, but I underestimated how long it takes to press a book lol. I was expecting a few weeks (for no reason at all, having never done anything like it) but it takes about 14-16 weeks, and it was sent off to be pressed last week, so it should be available in March 2012.
Will it be at all good bookstores or just a handful of specific ones? I'll be very very interested to read this, I know you don't pull any punches when it comes to the truth so I'm guessing it's going to be pretty raw and to the point.
My plan right now is to press a limited number of copies - maybe 200-300 - and sell them directly from my site rather than have it go into stores. I will then shop it about and see if I can get it published "properly". If that doesn't happen, I will release the ebook and make both that and the hard copy available in Amazon etc etc.
I have tried to be as honest as possible, and a few artists and people in the scene don't come off looking that great - but then, neither do I lol. I have certainly made my share of mistakes and dick moves, and I have been clear about them in the book. I hope the book will give an open and interesting view of how things happened without being preachy, as well as a nice in sight into the beginnings of the rave scene and the mechanics behind the music industry of the time. I also hope not to get sued or beaten up, ha ha.
My only real fear is that I have made mistakes because my memory is fairly crappy and it was a long time ago. I don't care if some people get upset when I tell the truth - but I do care if they get upset because of something I say which I have remembered incorrectly. This is another reason why I am only pressing a limited number first of all. It gives me time to edit and change mistakes and add explanations where needed, before pressing a 2.0 version.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,227 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 18:59:03
didn't know you where doing a book, but ****, it would be a better (and less heavy) read compared to my Dark Souls video game Guide
__________________________________
---------------------------------------------
Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
---------------------------------------------
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NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 18:59:16
quote:
Originally posted by Luna-C:
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
quote:
Originally posted by Luna-C:
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
Luna-C while you're about and active in this thread do you have any news on your Autobiography or has it been postponed?
It is all done. I was hoping it would be ready for Christmas, but I underestimated how long it takes to press a book lol. I was expecting a few weeks (for no reason at all, having never done anything like it) but it takes about 14-16 weeks, and it was sent off to be pressed last week, so it should be available in March 2012.
Will it be at all good bookstores or just a handful of specific ones? I'll be very very interested to read this, I know you don't pull any punches when it comes to the truth so I'm guessing it's going to be pretty raw and to the point.
My plan right now is to press a limited number of copies - maybe 200-300 - and sell them directly from my site rather than have it go into stores. I will then shop it about and see if I can get it published "properly". If that doesn't happen, I will release the ebook and make both that and the hard copy available in Amazon etc etc.
I have tried to be as honest as possible, and a few artists and people in the scene don't come off looking that great - but then, neither do I lol. I have certainly made my share of mistakes and dick moves, and I have been clear about them in the book. I hope the book will give an open and interesting view of how things happened without being preachy, as well as a nice in sight into the beginnings of the rave scene and the mechanics behind the music industry of the time. I also hope not to get sued or beaten up, ha ha.
My only real fear is that I have made mistakes because my memory is fairly crappy and it was a long time ago. I don't care if some people get upset when I tell the truth - but I do care if they get upset because of something I say which I have remembered incorrectly. This is another reason why I am only pressing a limited number first of all. It gives me time to edit and change mistakes and add explanations where needed, before pressing a 2.0 version.
I'm glad the truth will be published, I couldn't give a toss about the scene because I don't feel like I'm part of it but for the sake of friends and others I've talked to who have been screwed over and generally treated like shit I'd love for the karma boomerang to come back around and show people the truth. Ironically I think this is going to happen with the government and stuff next year too, I think 2012 will be the year truth comes out.
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jenks
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,698 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 21:01:09
Ha
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SparkzMusic
Senior Member
Zimbabwe
334 posts
Joined: Apr, 2011
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 21:28:10
"The problem with your post SparkzMusic, and many like it, are things like this. It supposes that after years of struggling within the d'n'b scene to make a name for themselves, Pendulum woke up and decided that "yes, today is the day that we will deliberately change the scene for the people who hate it so we can make more cash!".
This is the sort of thing I hear people say all the time, but I am not sure how Pendulum went about it. I have been in the scene making music for over 20 years, and perhaps I am just stupid, but if anyone out there can tell me how I would go about changing the entire scene so that I can make more cash and get more publicity, it would really help me out!
Its easy to say such things because it lays the blame for what you don't like at the feet of one particular act, but in truth it is nonsense.
For a start, even if it were possible to change an entire scene made up of hundreds of thousands of people, why would they? The scene had given them noting but love.
And why would they change it for the people who hate the genre? Are you saying that Pendulum were never into D'n'B and always hated the scene, but went through years of hard work just to destroy it after d'n'b killed Pendulums parents?
Or that they always loved the scene, but once it made them a crap load of money they turned evil and decided that it wasn't enough to do well, they also had to kill everyone else by making the d'n'b scene lame?
I am not picking on you mate, you are not the first or the last to make such claims, I just want to point out how ridiculous it is once you actually think about it. When someone says "This Artist changed the d'n'b scene" they may be right. But the artist in question is standing on the shoulders of all the other artists who released music at that time, as well as every other element of the scene. Pendulum weren't the only one doing d'n'b mixed with rock - Andy C was as well, and so were many others. And it wasn't rock people that first bought d'n'b with that flavor, it was people within the d'n'b scene. And it wasn't rock Djs that played the tunes, it was d'n'b Djs. And it was people into d'n'b that bought the music. And it was only after all of that had happened, that it started to expand outside of the d'n'b scene, and that was not within the control of anyone.
When someone says "This Artist deliberately changed the d'n'b scene so that they can etc etc" they are always wrong. I dont think any artist ever wielded such power. Change is caused by millions of little events. Sometimes on act or artists will be on the tip of that change, and it is natural to see them as the reason for it because they are the obvious example. But it is a mistake, and it leads to assumptions which are simply not true."
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The thing people may be missing is the point of the major players who are making that sound being backed by labels with more cash than anyone to start with.
Isnt it just too weird that as soon as the major names are getting signings with the likes of AATW, hardcore has become exactly the same music thats on clubland and in the charts but speeded up.
You can pretty much pinpoint a certain artist changing the scene as such this time though. Petruccio and modulate pretty much started the speeded up dubstep trend, which breeze spotted and signed up. Since it suited aatw perfectly as the mainstream "in" thing is dubstep, they backed it.
Just before that the big players were pretty much breeze, styles, hixxy, technikore, recon. After that trend started, about a month ago hixxy was learning how to make that style (he posted his first experimental dubstepcore track up not so long ago on soundcloud), then today technikore posted up his first dubstep/electrocore track on soundcloud, so they are almost copying that style.
The sad thing in hardcore is maybe people didnt intentionally try to change the scene overnight or anything....yes, but the bignames supported by the big labels are the dictators of the scene at the current time, they define what hardcore is, by whatever they make, and others can either follow suit and make the same style with a chance to be noticed, or make any other style and not be heard.
If now for example an up and coming made an absolute belter of a track, which was like nothing anyone had heard before, a complete fresh new style of hardcore which was getting a lot of attention.... what would happen? either a bigname would get in touch with that up and coming to try and sign them to their label (use them to make money by using promotion and their established name) or they would just plainly copy the style and push it out themselves.
Thats what happened with modulate and petruccio, they made a different, new style of hardcore (the not so great electro/dubstep core) which turned some heads, they got signed up on a bignames label who used their established name and big label contacts to push and promote it, the next thing you know its taken off and other bignames are copying that style whilst anyone who doesnt like it are given the "tuff, like it or lump it" treatment.
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jenks
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,698 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 21:51:11
You can't force people to like something. The minimalist/electro style isn't going massive because the big labels are backing it, they're backing it because it's going massive. People are just annoyed that a style they don't like is big right now, so are desperately trying to rationalize why it's OK for them to complain, when it isn't. Producers have zero obligation to make music that you personally want to listen to. Saying that though, if people actually had a look around, there is plenty of hardcore being made with no electro/minimalist or dubstep influence.
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NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 22:42:08
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
You can't force people to like something. The minimalist/electro style isn't going massive because the big labels are backing it, they're backing it because it's going massive. People are just annoyed that a style they don't like is big right now, so are desperately trying to rationalize why it's OK for them to complain, when it isn't. Producers have zero obligation to make music that you personally want to listen to. Saying that though, if people actually had a look around, there is plenty of hardcore being made with no electro/minimalist or dubstep influence.
LOL sorry but that's simply not true. In the internet era of facebook and free tunes being handed out left right and centre, label news is a few clicks away, buying records can be done in 30 seconds and they STILL have to constantly urge people to support them and give incentives...and what happens? People would rather support labels like ReBuild, HU, Next Generation, Kniteforce etc. and hunt through the internet to find something worthwhile.
If clubs refused to let modern hardcore be played in their venues do you really think people would drive out to fields and warehouses and call up info lines just to hear the current music? Not a chance, the illegal raves with the best turnouts never play upfront hardcore. There are never any upfront illegals because nobody is motivated about the music enough to venture that far.
If I want to go to an upfront UK Hardcore rave I take a walk from my house to the station, get on a comfy train, sit back and relax as I'm transported to london, get off the train and walk into a club for under a tenner with nice lighting and facilities that are warm and toilets that are nice and yet I STILL find myself going 'nah, it's not worth it for the music'.
I'm not saying old skool is better than new skool or anything like that, but in the past people would overcome all the obstacles just to get to a rave in a deserted space in the middle of nowhere, all without internet because they loved the music and nothing more. It's as simple as that. Electro hardcore wouldn't last 5 minutes out of the clubs, it'd die before you know it.
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Janster
New Member
Canada
64 posts
Joined: Dec, 2008
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 22:58:13
quote:
Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
then today technikore posted up his first dubstep/electrocore track on soundcloud
It's not there! I wanna listen!
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Luna-C
Average Member
United Kingdom
222 posts
Joined: Dec, 2004
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Posted - 2011/12/24 : 23:47:11
quote:
Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
"The problem with your post SparkzMusic, and many like it, are things like this. It supposes that after years of struggling within the d'n'b scene to make a name for themselves, Pendulum woke up and decided that "yes, today is the day that we will deliberately change the scene for the people who hate it so we can make more cash!".
This is the sort of thing I hear people say all the time, but I am not sure how Pendulum went about it. I have been in the scene making music for over 20 years, and perhaps I am just stupid, but if anyone out there can tell me how I would go about changing the entire scene so that I can make more cash and get more publicity, it would really help me out!
Its easy to say such things because it lays the blame for what you don't like at the feet of one particular act, but in truth it is nonsense.
For a start, even if it were possible to change an entire scene made up of hundreds of thousands of people, why would they? The scene had given them noting but love.
And why would they change it for the people who hate the genre? Are you saying that Pendulum were never into D'n'B and always hated the scene, but went through years of hard work just to destroy it after d'n'b killed Pendulums parents?
Or that they always loved the scene, but once it made them a crap load of money they turned evil and decided that it wasn't enough to do well, they also had to kill everyone else by making the d'n'b scene lame?
I am not picking on you mate, you are not the first or the last to make such claims, I just want to point out how ridiculous it is once you actually think about it. When someone says "This Artist changed the d'n'b scene" they may be right. But the artist in question is standing on the shoulders of all the other artists who released music at that time, as well as every other element of the scene. Pendulum weren't the only one doing d'n'b mixed with rock - Andy C was as well, and so were many others. And it wasn't rock people that first bought d'n'b with that flavor, it was people within the d'n'b scene. And it wasn't rock Djs that played the tunes, it was d'n'b Djs. And it was people into d'n'b that bought the music. And it was only after all of that had happened, that it started to expand outside of the d'n'b scene, and that was not within the control of anyone.
When someone says "This Artist deliberately changed the d'n'b scene so that they can etc etc" they are always wrong. I dont think any artist ever wielded such power. Change is caused by millions of little events. Sometimes on act or artists will be on the tip of that change, and it is natural to see them as the reason for it because they are the obvious example. But it is a mistake, and it leads to assumptions which are simply not true."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing people may be missing is the point of the major players who are making that sound being backed by labels with more cash than anyone to start with.
Isnt it just too weird that as soon as the major names are getting signings with the likes of AATW, hardcore has become exactly the same music thats on clubland and in the charts but speeded up.
You can pretty much pinpoint a certain artist changing the scene as such this time though. Petruccio and modulate pretty much started the speeded up dubstep trend, which breeze spotted and signed up. Since it suited aatw perfectly as the mainstream "in" thing is dubstep, they backed it.
Just before that the big players were pretty much breeze, styles, hixxy, technikore, recon. After that trend started, about a month ago hixxy was learning how to make that style (he posted his first experimental dubstepcore track up not so long ago on soundcloud), then today technikore posted up his first dubstep/electrocore track on soundcloud, so they are almost copying that style.
The sad thing in hardcore is maybe people didnt intentionally try to change the scene overnight or anything....yes, but the bignames supported by the big labels are the dictators of the scene at the current time, they define what hardcore is, by whatever they make, and others can either follow suit and make the same style with a chance to be noticed, or make any other style and not be heard.
If now for example an up and coming made an absolute belter of a track, which was like nothing anyone had heard before, a complete fresh new style of hardcore which was getting a lot of attention.... what would happen? either a bigname would get in touch with that up and coming to try and sign them to their label (use them to make money by using promotion and their established name) or they would just plainly copy the style and push it out themselves.
Thats what happened with modulate and petruccio, they made a different, new style of hardcore (the not so great electro/dubstep core) which turned some heads, they got signed up on a bignames label who used their established name and big label contacts to push and promote it, the next thing you know its taken off and other bignames are copying that style whilst anyone who doesnt like it are given the "tuff, like it or lump it" treatment.
Most of what you are complaining about is simply how it has always been. I am not saying it is right, its just how it is. However, its not working how they would like it to, because the music industry is not working like that any more. The days of "whoever has the most cash wins" are gone. It used to be that the labels had all the power because they could afford to do a video and adverts in the magazines etc etc. None of that matters now. The internet and piracy has leveled the playing field, and those that have good stuff will rise to the surface. There are plenty of examples - love him or hate him, Skrillex represents this exact thing. You can hate his music, but you cannot deny that he came by his popularity honestly. Most of the big acts nowadays are not from the major or big labels - rather, the big labels buy them AFTER they have made a name for themselves. It is a small, but critical difference in power.
The problem with hardcore and the big names is that they are desperate to keep living how they have been, and to do that they need to keep making the same money they are used to. And thats simply not going to happen. There is only a fraction of the money that there used to be in selling music. Still, they attempt to sell whatever they can to whoever they can using the old model of the music industry from 10 years ago. That model is dying, if not dead already. Its actually kind of sad, IMO.
But I am not mad at those people, even though what they do is not helping "the scene", because I understand it. I have been there myself. And I dont worry about it because that whole way of doing business simply cannot last. It doesn't matter how well Clubland X-Treme does - it wont do as well as Bonkers used to. And it wont do as well as the first Clubland X-Treme. And in the near future, it will stop altogether, at least in the current format.
To put it simply - why waste time worrying about what anyone else is doing? I never understood all the people that said "I got the new Bonkers album and it sucked!". If you don't like it, don't buy it. Every time you buy something you are saying "more of this please".
I don't think I have even heard of this electro hardcore thing. And I don't need to. I do well enough without having to be on Clubland X-Treme, just as I did well enough without Bonkers. I can talk directly to the people within the scene who like what I do, and I have no need to try to fit my music into the current thing. But this is because I have accepted that I wont make the money I used to make with Kniteforce in 1995, and I am willing to put in the work needed to speak directly to the people who support me. Anyone can do what I can do. Anyone can do what Clubland X-Treme is doing.
All I can say is don't waste time complaining about what you don't like on the internet. Instead, promote the hell out of what you do like. That is something that you can do, and it will make a difference to the people you are supporting, and it will help push the scene in the direction you want it to go. If enough people agree with you, whoop! If not, well, you just have to accept that what you like isn't for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Like the age old philosopher and man of many talents Bill Cosby said "I do not know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try and please everyone" lol.
Christmas is boring, hence my long winded meandering posts lol.
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NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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Posted - 2011/12/25 : 01:00:50
I find the worst part of it isn't so much "they're doing something I don't like!!!" because there's a lot of that everywhere and I do alright in avoiding it. My problem is that A, this music has pretty much decimated the original rave scene and replaced it with something totally different and awful to take part in, all the emphasis on the clubby sound has just attracted all the twats to the music and going to raves is no longer fun or safe - and because hardcore is so small it's difficult to find a rave that doesn't include this music. And B, they're still pushing it as 'the future of hardcore' even though it isn't hardcore and it isn't their place to decide the future as they are not the future and do not decide it, the absolute icing on the cake is how unimaginitive and musically horrendous it is.
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