_Jay_ Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,868 posts Joined: Oct, 2011
Posted - 2011/12/12 : 17:16:48
quote:Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
I wonder if that's 3CDs by Breeze and Styles including an HTID CD or if that's 3CDs by breeze and styles plus an HTID CD..
The way it's written, it would be difficult to think it was anything other than four CDs. Impossible to say conclusively though, I guess.
So what does that mean, if it is four?
Two of the three from Breeze & Styles will be "harder" (i.e. Electro/Stammering/Dubstep) and the third of theirs, and the Hixxy/Re-Con CD will be nice stuff? Too optimistic?
Alert moderatorEdited by - cruelcore1 on 2011/12/12 17:23:45
meran05 Average Member
United Kingdom
233 posts Joined: Nov, 2005
Posted - 2011/12/13 : 10:06:30
quote:Originally posted by _Jay_:
quote:Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
I wonder if that's 3CDs by Breeze and Styles including an HTID CD or if that's 3CDs by breeze and styles plus an HTID CD..
The way it's written, it would be difficult to think it was anything other than four CDs. Impossible to say conclusively though, I guess.
So what does that mean, if it is four?
Two of the three from Breeze & Styles will be "harder" (i.e. Electro/Stammering/Dubstep) and the third of theirs, and the Hixxy/Re-Con CD will be nice stuff? Too optimistic?
I thought that but i have asked Hixxy who has confirmed its 3 cd's!
SparkzMusic Senior Member
Zimbabwe
334 posts Joined: Apr, 2011
Posted - 2011/12/18 : 00:07:57
My input.
From what people are saying "hardcore changed in 1996"? Thats rubbish really.
Look at several things that hardcore always had as its main characteristics after the oldskool era (so 1995 onwards):
Very heavy kickdrum
An offbeat bass that would rumble your monitors
Cheesey piano
Melody to make you smile
Catchy versions of past chart tracks or memorable original vocals
Right the way up until the electrocore/dubstep era thats how it was. The switch from the "happy hardcore" era to the "uk hardcore" era was just an upgrade really, The kickdrums had become a bit cleaner but still with the same power (if not more), the same as with the offbeat bass. Cheesey vocals were still there, as were the pianos, but the main upgrade was from the sampled synth sound to the euphoric trancy leads, still the same melodic sound and cheese was there.
Now dubstepcore has no resemblance. Dont get me wrong theres a few tracks with a good vocal, but most of the time its mashed up, cut short and has all sorts of glitchy/dark/rough effects placed on it to ruin it. The kickdrum either doesnt exist or is quieter than a clap and melodys are often just the standard same note every bar, sidechained lead sounds.
The question I ask is what happened around 1999? It was the great crash of hardcore. A massive contributor to that was the same sounds and lineups at each event (back then it was typically hixxy, sy, dougal, brisk, slipmatt, vibes).
Whats happening now?? Exactly the same with the same bignames and lineups (hixxy, breeze, styles, gammer, dougal, recon, sy and unknown) but this time it isnt a great crash of hardcore because of how its easier to make people aware of things (like people can find stuff on social networking sites and buy digitally) and because of it there will always be people buying the music.
Maybe so that the style is top of the TID charts....but.... thats because the people buying it dont like real hardcore, many love dubstep and so love the sound of hardcore nowadays (its just like when people said 1 year "I hate dnb, its the worst music ever" then the following year "oh wow, I really love pendulum")
Its pretty much the simple situation of someone changing to style of the "rock" genre so it no longer contain guitars and drums, but instead contains banging kickdrums and heavy trance leads.... people would still buy it, namely trance lovers, but the people who supported in through thick and thin for its guitars and drums would hate it and turn their backs on it.
Dys7 Advanced Member
United States
1,231 posts Joined: Nov, 2011
Posted - 2011/12/18 : 00:41:58
I have to say, I like the occasional dubstep inspired track, but I don't like basing the entire genre off it.
Things like stammering and minimal drops make good novelties, but I don't think they should define the genre.
I will admit I do enjoy some songs off of the newer Clubland X-Treme's, although a great many of the songs are complete crap.
(Klubfiller - Get The Funk (KF Edit)
Songs like this sound like they were made by a bored teen over the weekend.
It probably used 2 different beats, 1 riff, and 2 sound files through the entire song.
I would never mix a song like this, because it's just so uninspired and trashy it wouldn't get me going.
There were tons of classic songs on there, like "Save Me" and Hixxy's remix of "Set You Free". I think it's a great way to get people into the scene as a whole, if they want the more mainstream side of the genre - and like it or not, stammering and dubstep is just whats in right now. Producers are trying to make what they think will appeal to people, at the expense of their long time listeners.
Appeal is the basis of the entire album. Why did they put a semi-naked girl on the cover? To get guys to buy it. Why did they only pick VERY well known DJ's to mix it? To get the masses to be interested in it.
I loved the original Hardcore Nation album- I think it showed a lot of the last great "happy hardcore" songs. They weren't the older more breakbeat kind, but they werent the modern cleaner kind either.
Bang - Cloudy Daze
This was my favorite song off of Hardcore Nation, it's the first album I bought and I loved everything off it.
Alot of hardcore did change after 1999, but there are tons of "modern" songs I absolutely love that wouldn't have existed if the genre didn't try to expand and change, and take influence from other genres.
The trance style in Darwin ft. Pearl Blue - Don't Be Lonely is one of my favorite songs of all time, granted, its not based off of something as formulaic as dubstep, but it still took an influence from another genre.
I haven't been into hardcore for very long, so I'm sure some of the stuff I've said older guys will laugh at, but this is just what I think.
__________________________________
The above comment was likely written when I was *literally* 13, so please don't judge me too hard.
SparkzMusic Senior Member
Zimbabwe
334 posts Joined: Apr, 2011
Posted - 2011/12/18 : 01:40:22
agree with a lot of that mate
"stammering and dubstep is just whats in right now. Producers are trying to make what they think will appeal to people, at the expense of their long time listeners"
I think its sadly less about whats appeals to people but more about what sells the best to fill their pockets. Its just copying what sells well in the charts to sell to people, what happens if something like rock music comes back in and sells well in the charts? are we going to have "rockcore"?
The milking done is beyond words, from the style (dubstep) to the naming of the genre, bignames still call it "uk hardcore" even though it isnt and should be classed as another genre but they are using the "uk hardcore" name so that new listeners can hear the dub step tat, look up "uk hardcore" and see that 1 of the bignames has been producing it for over 10 years and gain more respect for them/buy more of their albums. It should be called another genre.
What sickens me too is theres other certain previous bignames (not gonna name anyone), who used to produce but quit years ago, then as soon as the scene becomes commercial, they pop back up and use their previously established names to gain bookings (due to the popularity of the falsely named genre) or pay off some talented person whos just getting established to compose some tracks with their name added to them so more people find them and more money is made.
NekoShuffle Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts Joined: Nov, 2009
Posted - 2011/12/18 : 14:22:45
quote:Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
My input.
From what people are saying "hardcore changed in 1996"? Thats rubbish really.
Look at several things that hardcore always had as its main characteristics after the oldskool era (so 1995 onwards):
Very heavy kickdrum
An offbeat bass that would rumble your monitors
Cheesey piano
Melody to make you smile
Catchy versions of past chart tracks or memorable original vocals
Right the way up until the electrocore/dubstep era thats how it was. The switch from the "happy hardcore" era to the "uk hardcore" era was just an upgrade really, The kickdrums had become a bit cleaner but still with the same power (if not more), the same as with the offbeat bass. Cheesey vocals were still there, as were the pianos, but the main upgrade was from the sampled synth sound to the euphoric trancy leads, still the same melodic sound and cheese was there.
Now dubstepcore has no resemblance. Dont get me wrong theres a few tracks with a good vocal, but most of the time its mashed up, cut short and has all sorts of glitchy/dark/rough effects placed on it to ruin it. The kickdrum either doesnt exist or is quieter than a clap and melodys are often just the standard same note every bar, sidechained lead sounds.
The question I ask is what happened around 1999? It was the great crash of hardcore. A massive contributor to that was the same sounds and lineups at each event (back then it was typically hixxy, sy, dougal, brisk, slipmatt, vibes).
Whats happening now?? Exactly the same with the same bignames and lineups (hixxy, breeze, styles, gammer, dougal, recon, sy and unknown) but this time it isnt a great crash of hardcore because of how its easier to make people aware of things (like people can find stuff on social networking sites and buy digitally) and because of it there will always be people buying the music.
Maybe so that the style is top of the TID charts....but.... thats because the people buying it dont like real hardcore, many love dubstep and so love the sound of hardcore nowadays (its just like when people said 1 year "I hate dnb, its the worst music ever" then the following year "oh wow, I really love pendulum")
Its pretty much the simple situation of someone changing to style of the "rock" genre so it no longer contain guitars and drums, but instead contains banging kickdrums and heavy trance leads.... people would still buy it, namely trance lovers, but the people who supported in through thick and thin for its guitars and drums would hate it and turn their backs on it.
Hardcore changed in 1995 not 1996 and it did change, you even said yourself "after the old skool era" well that's the change we're talking about. I don't think UK hardcore was an 'upgrade' of Happy Hardcore because UK Hardcore simply is bad at being happy. The instruments and production techniques used are just not happy sounding, they're too sharp. I'd say the only think that comes close to Upfront Hardcore being happy is Stompy - Forever Hardcore. There are UK Hardcore tracks that's happier than others, but on the whole it will never touch the 90s Happy Hardcore in terms of cheesiness and happiness. Some people may not like to hear this but the only guys who have managed to keep the old skool happy vibe within the new, cleaner sounding hardcore have been Archefluxx and Spirit Wolf among a few others. Happy Hardcore is a subgenre all of its own and has nothing to do with UK Hardcore.
SparkzMusic Senior Member
Zimbabwe
334 posts Joined: Apr, 2011
Posted - 2011/12/18 : 14:42:36
wow,
Its always followed the roots though,
not really, in 1995 a lot of the tracks still contained a lot of breaks and hoover/stab sounds, then when an even harder kick was implemented in 1996 (things like eruption, uk dance records etc) and it was more about the cheesey ripoffs of 80's tracks than about the long breaks/ragga inspired stuff.
the oldskool era was cheese, it had some short vocal lines, pianos, breaks and hoovers/stabs, the change to "happy hardcore" meant there was slightly less breaks/stabs, it had taken the influence of the dutch style with its kickdrum, was more vocal and synth influenced, kept the piano.
The elements for happy hardcore was its cheese, vocals, piano's, synths. The elements for UK Hardcore was no different, except for the trance influence.
Until the dubstep sound it always evolved and became better we had old skool evolved into happy hardcore which evolved into uk hardcore. I liked all of them but its new evolution into electrocore has killed it.
You clearly havent heard any of my stuff then if you think theres very few who have kept that vibe in production. Been producing hardcore for 10 years, and in that time nearly every single track I have made has tried to take the old sounds and combine them with the 2002/04 era of sounds.
Look at rock music from the 70's onwards, theres been all sorts, thrash metal, emo, ballards, although they all sound different they have a lot of the same influences and come under the "rock" genre.
The same with hardcore, weather its happy hardcore, oldskool, uk hardcore they all come under the same genre of "hardcore"
NekoShuffle Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts Joined: Nov, 2009
Posted - 2011/12/18 : 15:08:25
quote:Originally posted by SparkzMusic:
wow,
Its always followed the roots though,
not really, in 1995 a lot of the tracks still contained a lot of breaks and hoover/stab sounds, then when an even harder kick was implemented in 1996 (things like eruption, uk dance records etc) and it was more about the cheesey ripoffs of 80's tracks than about the long breaks/ragga inspired stuff.
the oldskool era was cheese, it had some short vocal lines, pianos, breaks and hoovers/stabs, the change to "happy hardcore" meant there was slightly less breaks/stabs, it had taken the influence of the dutch style with its kickdrum, was more vocal and synth influenced, kept the piano.
The elements for happy hardcore was its cheese, vocals, piano's, synths. The elements for UK Hardcore was no different, except for the trance influence.
Until the dubstep sound it always evolved and became better we had old skool evolved into happy hardcore which evolved into uk hardcore. I liked all of them but its new evolution into electrocore has killed it.
You clearly havent heard any of my stuff then if you think theres very few who have kept that vibe in production. Been producing hardcore for 10 years, and in that time nearly every single track I have made has tried to take the old sounds and combine them with the 2002/04 era of sounds.
Look at rock music from the 70's onwards, theres been all sorts, thrash metal, emo, ballards, although they all sound different they have a lot of the same influences and come under the "rock" genre.
The same with hardcore, weather its happy hardcore, oldskool, uk hardcore they all come under the same genre of "hardcore"
...You're just saying exactly what I've said over the last few pages. Apart from the fact I don't really think anything pre 1995 was cheesy, aside from maybe Smart-Es - Sesame's Treet. UK Hardcore is very rarely cheesy, I get a lot of people saying that clubland etc. is cheesy, I don't think that's cheesy in the slightest, I don't think anything post 2004 was that cheesy apart from a few tracks here and there, the rest is just diva vocal stuff. This is cheese, in fact this is the cheesiest mix you will ever find:
There are a few artists here and there keeping the real happy hardcore sound alive without all the upfront trancy synths which IMO take a lot of the happiness out of tracks, I know this because I make tunes with a handful of them and they sound nothing like the vocal uplifting upfront hardcore, in fact they make that sound like gabber in comparison :P
cruelcore1 Advanced Member
Croatia (Hrvatska)
1,485 posts Joined: May, 2010
Posted - 2011/12/18 : 16:25:40
Eventhough my liking of tracks doesn't always depend on the mood, I'm most likely to like the tracks that are at least a little bit trancy. That's why I LOVE the new sound, and can barely love the old sound. And we hav better technology.
This Bouncy Freeeform with 1 happy part is just WOW to me. Because Trancy part and vocal are amazing. Definitely the best oldskool Hardcore ive heard (by random stuff I found here, including Smoogie's), eventhough it might not be "old" I think.
P.S. It's not only the change of music key in tht part.
quote:Originally posted by Dys7:
I have to say...
your videos don't show up. you misspelled the links. make sure to put code only, not the entire link.
Alert moderatorEdited by - cruelcore1 on 2011/12/18 16:27:34
NekoShuffle Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts Joined: Nov, 2009
Posted - 2011/12/18 : 16:37:19
quote:Originally posted by cruelcore1:
Eventhough my liking of tracks doesn't always depend on the mood, I'm most likely to like the tracks that are at least a little bit trancy. That's why I LOVE the new sound, and can barely love the old sound. And we hav better technology.
This Bouncy Freeeform with 1 happy part is just WOW to me. Because Trancy part and vocal are amazing. Definitely the best oldskool Hardcore ive heard (by random stuff I found here, including Smoogie's).
P.S. It's not only the change of music key in tht part.
quote:Originally posted by Dys7:
I have to say...
your videos don't show up. you misspelled the links. make sure to put code only, not the entire link.
Yep! I wouldn't call Raver Raver Raver old skool but it's one of the few Happy Hardcore upfront tracks. I wish it didn't change into all the freeform stuff but that's me :P
DJ-Hutchy Senior Member
United Kingdom
355 posts Joined: Sep, 2008
Posted - 2011/12/18 : 18:03:56
Y'all know how it is, people like hardcore how it was, how it is and how it will be, but as sparkz said people will stick to the genre and people will leave as things change!
I've been here since 1997ish and i was 10 years old, still love the sound now and as for someone said earlier Hixxy is smashing it at the moment, i feel with his updated Happy Hardcore tracks.
NekoShuffle Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts Joined: Nov, 2009
Posted - 2011/12/18 : 19:10:43
quote:Originally posted by DJ-Hutchy:
Y'all know how it is, people like hardcore how it was, how it is and how it will be, but as sparkz said people will stick to the genre and people will leave as things change!
I've been here since 1997ish and i was 10 years old, still love the sound now and as for someone said earlier Hixxy is smashing it at the moment, i feel with his updated Happy Hardcore tracks.
I think there's a lot of great upfront hardcore, I loved all the vocal Dougal and Gammer stuff, Hixxy as you say is definitely there, especially with Sora Blue recently plus the numerous indie producers who aren't on labels and stuff are throwing out loads of great tunes too. But at the end of the day if I was to be really picky it just feels completely different to Happy Hardcore from 1995-2001, the melodies aren't as cheesy, the lyrical content has changed, trancy synths just aren't a happy sounding noise, I feel old skool happy hardcore just had much more emotion and felt like someone really happy made them.
Upfront just feels far too flat in comparison, everything is so clean and polished that it detracts from the character. I'm only 20 years old too, I never experienced the old skool days, I was into Darren Styles, Weaver, Squad-E etc. at first, then I got hold of the Happy 2B Hardcore CD series and it all changed...I can't go back to Upfront even if I wanted to. Upfront has it's own flavour, it has its own sound and its own image, that's why I separate it from Happy Hardcore. Happy Hardcore does have a future, it's not forever stuck in the 90s, but I feel its future sounds nothing like Upfront Hardcore currently does, it's just a case of nobody has really come up with it yet, but believe me it's not far around the corner.
cruelcore1 Advanced Member
Croatia (Hrvatska)
1,485 posts Joined: May, 2010
Posted - 2011/12/18 : 19:57:45
quote:Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
Yep! I wouldn't call Raver Raver Raver old skool but it's one of the few Happy Hardcore upfront tracks. I wish it didn't change into all the freeform stuff but that's me :P
Though, how do u call oldskool-styled new track? New oldskool?
Printer friendly
Posted - 2011/12/12 : 17:16:48
